Ismaili.NET - Heritage F.I.E.L.D.Defenses Glorifying the Aga Khan filed in federal Court - 2010-04-29
In a surprisingly rapid twist of events, both Mr Tajdin and Mr Jiwa have filed their respective statements of Defense this 29th of April 2010. They affirm to being devoted followers who will unconditionally abide by the wishes of the Aga Khan, whom they glorify in their defense.
Mr Tajdin declares that:
He has not been served yet but the ethics imposed upon him by his faith demands that he should not keep in ignorance the public by being silent on the issue and should clarify all of the facts, pertaining to this lawsuit, of which he is aware.
He reaffirms his allegiance to the Aga Khan, is willing to submit to any of his wishes, and is ready to surrender himself and all his possessions to the Imam.
He has been printing Farman books since 1992 with approval and instructions from the Imam received on August 15, 1992 in Montreal.
He has not received any communication from the Imam from 1992 to 2009 instructing him to stop publication.
He cannot stop publication without instruction from the Imam as this would be a breach of his oath of allegiance to the Imam.
All Farman publications were financial deficit projects done as a volunteer service and large numbers of books were distributed free of charge.
Farman sharing is a historic Ismaili tradition which still continues today.
The current Ismaili Constitution does not restrict the right to publish Farmans
Mr Tajdin concludes that:
He has no choice but to await further direct instructions from the Imam.
He reaffirms his allegiance to the Aga Khan, is willing to submit to any of His wishes, and is ready to surrender himself and all his possessions to the Imam.
Mr Jiwa states that:
"This action does not appear to have been authorized personally by the Aga Khan .."
"In distributing Farman books obtained from Tajdin to other Ismailis, he has not violated either the Ismaili Constitution or any Farmans"
He has not violated the copyright act as "Tajdin was given express authority by the Imam" and regardless of the fact that "the limitations period provided for by the Copyright Act also bars this action as the books containing the Farmans were commenced publication in the year 1992", he will still do whatever the Imam tells him to do.
Mr Jiwa clarifies finances:
He "obtains these books for C$50.00 from Tajdin and sells it for C$50.00, without any profit.
"All monies received by him from the sale of (other) books after 2005 were delivered to the Jamatkhanas"
Mr Jiwa further states that:
"If the Imam edited the Farman before releasing to the Jamats, in effect he is superceding the Farman he made orally previously."
He "unconditionally reconfirms his oath of allegiance to his Imam" and "if the Imam does not desire his Farman books to be distributed to the Jamats (...) this defendant will submit to the instructions of His Imam without reservation whatsoever"
Replies From the Plaintiff are due within 10 days, and Affidavits of Documents are due 30 days later.
[Update from May 6: Ogilvy Renault, the law firm which launched the case has asked for an extension of 15 days to reply to the Defense. They claim delays due to breakdown of email servers, blackberry communication, travel of senior lawyer, time difference with Paris etc...The more delays in this file, the more damage it creates to the reputation of the Ismaili community, the Imam and the defendants. It is to the advantage of all parties that this case be withdrawn from the courts.]
[Update from June 22: Defendants have filed a Motion for summary Judgement to have the case dismissed.]
[Update from September 5:
Online Book that gathers court materials as well as articles that are currently available for the ongoing 2010 Lawsuit:
Copyright Lawsuit 2010: Online Book of All available Materials
News on cross-examinations:
Copyright Lawsuit: CROSS_EXAMINATIONS Table of Contents - 2010-09-04
Latest Development
Copyright Lawsuit: Imam Appears for Discovery and Ends the Case - 2010-10-15
As users are asking to read the letters from Nagib and Alnaz on the court docket, the latest have been attached on the following link:
A. Various Court Filings
Revised Factums have been posted Here:
2010-11-29 Summary Judgment : Plaintiffs Revised Combined Factums of Reply and of Motion
2010-11-29 Summary Judgment: Defendants' Revised Factums of Motion and of Reply
There has been proven fraud in the recent past in the Aga Khan's domain by the Aga Khan's agents:
Aga Khan Lawsuit: Fraud at Aga Khan Studs - 2000-02-22
2011-05-25: A Jamati Member who has never met the Defendants volunteered as his brotherly duty to pay the $30,000 that was demanded in the Plaintiff''s submissions and that was accordingly ordered by the judge.
Read the full details of the $30,000 payment directly to H.H. The Aga Khan.
2011-06-16: The Appeal Memorandum of Fact and Law against the Summary Judgment has been filed in court by the defendants on June 16th, 2011.
Read the Full Appeal Memorandum of Fact and Law
Link to Court Docket Case T-514-10
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-60-11
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-59-11
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-156-13
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Tajdin Defence Apr 29.10.pdf | 491.02 KB |
| Jiwa AK Defence Apr 29.10.pdf | 543.82 KB |
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Gray's Motion dismissed by Court, Defendants' Appeal to proceed.
Order dated 14-MAR-2011 rendered by The Honourable Madam Justice Dawson Matter considered without personal appearance. The Court's decision is with regard to the motion / document number 2 Result: dismissed
See Docket: http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_RE_info_e.php?...
To Librarian-umed re: Gray's motion dismissed (March 14th)
786
In plain English, what does this document mean, librarian-umed? (I clicked on the link but did not understand what was said...) Could you please explain? Thank you in advance.
Ya Aly madad.
Appeal proceeding normaly
Gray asked the Court not to accept the Appeal of the defendant but the Court did not agree.
The ground for Gray's motion to quash was that the final judgment was not issued yet but was to be issued following the reasons for judgment of January. Instead of a Motion to dismiss the appeal, the easier way would have been to agree to stay the Notice of Appeal up to the time of the Judgment and then only proceed with a perfected notice. Or Gray could have withdrawn his motion as soon as the final judgment was issued. When he took the decision to withdraw his motion, it was already too late by few minutes or few hours because the Court had already decided to dismiss it.
In fact Gray did not indicate that he objected to the Appeal once the judgment would be issued, he wanted only to delay it. Appeal at the Federal Court is a right so it would have happened anyway in due time.
The Defendant can proceed now with the Appeal.
For few months, the preparation for the Appeal will go on for both sides. Unless an amicable solution is found or unless the consent judgment signed by defendant many months ago following Imam's directions is accepted by SS and Co.
@Librarian-umed re: Appeal proceeding normally (March 15)
786
Thank you ever so much for these explanations, Umed. I really appreciate.
Ya Aly madad.
SS and MM are clearly not
SS and MM are clearly not following Imams wishes, directions or Farmans.
If any leader has any doubts they should now not have them and they must seek clarification.
Imam has reminded us that there should be no conflict between our intellect and our faith. If there is any we should seek clarification and guidance
Imam directed leaders to give the highest priority to achieving this and Imam supported them with access to unparalleled guidance, resources and funds to the leadership. The enabling environment Imam has spoken of many a time
Words and questions which all leaders should consider and assess are; meritocracy, unity, enabling environment, pluralism, cosmopolitan ethics, inclusiveness, integration uniformity, understanding and articulation of tariquah, excessive greed, jamati success as a whole (not for a select few), The GJ goals and vision of Imam, the balance between din and dunya... finally and most important the full and complete access by all murids to all of the Imam's guidance directions and Farmans with Imams thoughts and annotations.
The question to also ask - Has the conflict between the Jamats individual and collective intellect and faith increased, narrowed or is the same today as compared to 20 and 10 years ago.
Some Leaders may not have realised that we have entered a new era of the intellectual society having transitioned from the information and knowledge societies. imam realised this and gave guidance on this 10 plus years ago, and in his lecture on 15 Oct 2010.
SS and his inner circle have been effectively the top leaders for the last 20 years. The Gap has demonstrably widened and certainly not narrowed. This is and can only be because they have not and are not following Imams directions and Farmans as highlighted and demonstrated by the lawsuit.
We should all read and reflect very carefully. Where we find ANY Directions or instructions or reports which are not consistent with or contradicts Imams wishes, directions or Farmans, then we MUST speak up, and seek clarification. Imam wishes us to do so in his Farmans and institutional directions. We should fulfil out commitment and oath selflessly from our hearts without any fear.
In doing so we are also supporting the leadership and our institutions and our Imamat. It is our obligation to do so and incumbent upon us to do so.
નિષ્ફળ જીત (Failed victory)
Here is another message sent by the octogenarian lady in Gujarati.
મારા અગાઉના લખાણમાં મેં વિસ્તારપૂર્વક સમજણ આપી હતી કે આ કેસ હાઝર ઈમામે નથી કર્યો પરંતુ સૌથી મોટા અને એકથી વધારે હોદ્દાઓ ઉપર બિરાજમાન એવા ડોક્ટર સચેદિના સાહેબના ફળદ્રુપ ભેજાનું આ બાળક છે. છતાં પણ સચેદિના અને મનજી સાહેબ જમાતને આડકતરી રીતે એ માનવાની કોશીશ કરી રહ્યા છે કે આ કેસમાં એમનો કોઈ હાથ નથી અને તેઓ તો આ કેસમાં ફક્ત સાક્ષી તરીકે જ આવ્યા હતા. બાકી કેસ તો હાઝર ઈમામ તરફ્થી હતો.
થોડોક વખત માટે આપણે એમની આ વાતો ભલે માની લઈએ કે આ કેસ હાઝર ઈમામે કર્યો છે તો મૌલાના આ કેસ કરવા પાછળ ક્યાં હેતુ કે હેતુઓ હોઈ શકે ? આ હેતુઓ નીચે મુજબ હોઇ શકે.
1. હાઝર ઈમામ જાણતા હતા કે 1992 થી અત્યાર સુધી આ બે મુરીદો એમના ફરમાનોને છાપીને જમાતમાં છુટથી વેચતા ફરતા હતા, અને જો હવે પણ આ લોકોને રોકવામાં નહિ આવે તો એમના ફરમાનોનું મહત્વ નહિ રહે, તેમજ બીજાઓ પણ આવા ફરમાનો છાપીને જમાતમાં વહેંચતા ફરશે.
2. આવા ફરમાનો official ન હોઈ એમાં જાણ્યે અજાણે વધુ કે ઓછી ભૂલો હોઈ જો જમાત આના ઉપર અમલ કરે તો પછી નુકસાનમાં રહે.
3. તરીકા બોર્ડ મારફત હાલ જે ફરમાનો જમાતખાનાઓમાં વાંચવામાં આવે છે તે પુરતા છે અને આ સિવાય જમાતને બીજા કોઈ ફરમાનો જાણવાની, સાંભળવાની કે વાંચવાની જરૂરત નથી.
આ સિવાયના બીજા કોઈ હેતુઓ મારી સમજમાં આવતા નથી. હવે આપણે એ જોઈએ કે શું આમાંનો કોઈ પણ હેતુ આ કેસના ફેંસલાથી પાર પાડી શકાયો છે ખરો? ખરેખર વિચાર કરીએ તો જણાશે કે આ ઉપર જણાવેલ એક પણ હેતુ આ થકી પાર પાડી શકાય તેમ નથી. અને એના કારણો આ પ્રમાણે છે.
1. ભારત તેમજ પાકિસ્તાનમાં કેટલાય જણ છે કે જેઓ આ ફરમાનોનું ભાષાંતર કરીને લાગતા વળગતાઓને પહોંચતા કરે છે, અને કેનેડાની કોર્ટના ફેંસલાથી એમની આ પ્રવ્રુત્તિઓ કદી પણ રોકી શકાતી નથી.
2. ન ફક્ત ગોલ્ડન એડિશનની 4800 કોપીઓ જમાત પાસે છે, પરંતુ હાલમાં જ આ બુકની ઘણી બધી ફોટો કોપીઓ તૈયાર થઈ રહી છે, અને જેમને જોઈએ છે તેવા લોકોને આ ફોટો કોપીઓ મળી રહી છે. કેનેડાની કોર્ટના આ ફેંસલાનું ત્રીજી દુનિયાના દેશોમાં કાયદેસરનું કોઈ જ મહત્વ નથી.
3. હાલ પણ ઘણા યુવાન ઈસમાઈલીઓ એક બીજાને e. mail મારફત આવા ફરમાનો મોકલતા રહે છે.
તો પછી સવાલ એ છે કે મૌલા પાસે આ હેતુઓ પાર પાડવા માટે શું બીજા કોઈ રસ્તાઓ નહોતાં? કેમકે હાલ કોર્ટ કેસ મારફત તો સમયની બરબાદી સાથે બંને પક્ષે ઘણાં બધા ખર્ચાઓ પણ થઈ ગયા છે, તે છતાં ય હજીક સુધી કોઈ નિવેડો આવ્યો નથી. ઉલ્ટાનું આ કેસથી તો જમાત તેમ જ બહાર ઘણો બધો ઉહાપોહ પણ થઈ રહ્યો હોઈ આપણી જમાત માટે બહાર નકારાત્મક પબ્લિસિટી થઈ રહી છે અને ખરાબ ઈમેજ ઉભી થઈ રહી છે. તે સિવાય પણ આ બંને મુરીદો પર જમાતના કેટલાક મેમ્બરો તરફથી ગંભીર અને ધમકીભર્યાં લખાણો અને સંદેશાઓ મળી રહયા છે.
એ મૌલા અકલે કુલ છે અને એને આ કેસથી થતા નુકસાનની પુરેપુરી ખબર હતી તેમ જ આથી એમનો કોઈ એકાદ હેતુ પણ પાર પાડી શકાશે નહિ તેની પણ તેમને જાણ હતી., તો પછી શું તેઓ આવો વાહિયાત કેસ કરે ખરાં ?
હવે જોઈએ કે અગર મૌલાએ પોતાના હેતુઓ જ પાર પાડવા હોત તો એમની પાસે બીજા ક્યા રસ્તઓ હતા કે જેથી ઓછામાં ઓછા સમયમાં અને શાંતિપુર્વક ઉપર જણાવેલ બધા જ હેતુઓ એક સાથે પાર પાડી શકાયા હોત. જો આ આખાય નાટકના આર્કિટેક્ટ હાઝર ઈમામ હોત તો તેમણે આ માટે કોર્ટનો સહારો લેવાના બદલે નીચે જણાવેલ કોઈ પણ અથવા તો બીજા ઘણા સરળ ઉપાયો લીધા હોત, જેવાકે:
1. નૈરોબીના મુખી કામડીયાઓને હાઝર ઈમામ પેરીસ બોલાવીને પોતાની આવી ઈચ્છા જાહેર કરી હોત અને નજીબને એમની મારફતે સંદેશો મોકલ્યો હોત તો આ કામ બહુ જ જલ્દીથી પાર પાડી શકાયું હોત.
2. નજીબને પેરીસમાં હાઝર ઈમામે બે એક મિનિટની અંગત મુલાકાત આપી હોત.
પણ આનાથી પણ સરળ ઉપાય તો એ હતો કે મૌલાએ દુનિયાભરના જમાતખાનાઓમાં એક સાથે આ મુજબનો તાલીકો મોકલ્યો હોત: “ આથી દુનિયાભર્ની જમાતોને જાણ કરવામાં આવે છે કે તરીકા બોર્ડ તરફથી જે ફરમાનો છપાય છે તે સિવાયના બીજા કોઈ પણ ફરમાનો વાંચવા, સાંભળવા કે તેવી કોઈ બુકો ખરીદવી કે ઘરમાં રાખવી નહિ, તેમ જ આવા ફરમાનો એકબીજાને e. mail મારફત મોકલવા નહિ.”
ઉપર જણાવેલ તાલીકાની અસર ફક્ત બે જ દિવસમાં થઈ હોત અને કોઇ પણ ઈસમાઈલીના ઘરમાં આવી દરેક બુકને બાળીને ખાક કરી દેવામાં આવી હોત.
Conclusion (સારાંશ):
1. શું હાઝર ઈમામ એવો કેસ કરે કે જેનાથી એક પણ હેતુ સફળ થાય એમ ન હોય ? અને ઉલટાનુ સમય, ખર્ચ અને જમાતમાં મનદુખ અને મતભેદો ઉભા થાય?
2. કોર્ટ્ના ફેંસલાથી કે આ કેસથી ખરેખર કોઈ સારો હેતુ સફળ થાય એમ છે ? સિવાય કે બે મુરીદોને પુરી રીતે બદનામ કરવા તેમજ આર્થિકરીતે એમને નુકસાનીમાં ઉતારી દેવા ?
"સાચું સુખ મળે છે ક્ષમાવાન થવામાં,
અને તમારી જાતને ને બીજા બધાંને ચાહવામાં " (મૌલા અલી)
.
Ordinary Murid
Can someone translate into english and the reply below into Gujerati for Mom and Dad.
I am confused why Imam e Zaman would also ask for $30000 from his murids for AKF. Imam is all giving, forgiving, Karim, Rehman and Rahim. Imam and Leaders know that these murids and their families have been giving generously of time and money, and they have openly affirmed allegiance and said clearly that they would give all their money and their life happily for the Imam. Can anyone explain ?
An uncle once had a unique opportunity of meeting Imam e Zaman. He took his wedding ring, knelt down, and handed the ring to Imam e zaman. Imam e Zaman blessed him and family, and then gave the ring back to him and said he should always wear it.
Imam e Zama is maha dayaru and mamtaru !
Taking money from the defendants
If my mind serves me right, didn't one of the defendants say that
Imam told Grey not to take any money from the defendants.
I think it was Najeb who said that, but I may be wrong. Umed can you correct me please.
Money issue
Yes, Gray said he had His Highness instruction not to ask for cost. He said that on 15 October 2010 and he said something like "His Highness does not want damages or legal fees" in an earlier email in May 2010 I think.
If Gray in presence of SS
If Gray in presence of SS and MM was directed not to claim fees or damages as confirmed by Librarian Umed. Then Gray did not follow instructions of his client MHI, Unless MHI after the meeting gave contradictory instructions.
Why would MHI say one thing to all of them and then something Opposite afterwards. Why would MHI ever do that? Does MHI ever do that?
Therefore it seems Gray has either decided on his own or more likely with SS and or MM and others.
SS and MM are saying to everyone MHI is personally handling this lawsuit. If so why would Imam contradict himself on this issue?
SS and MM and leaders have a responsibility to remind Gray what was agreed and directed by MHI. As leaders they should also see this as an injustice against 2 murids which MHI would never allow, nor should leaders.
Going against MHI's directions is showing disrespect for Imam as far as Gray is concerned and Imam, and Imamat as far as the Leaders in question are concerned.
I hope leaders reading these comments will act and if necessary inform MHI, and seek guidance from MHI.
You have to consider this:
You have to consider this:
1) Gray is not an Ismaili and is not bound by the words of the Imam or by our ethics though there is no major differences between the Ismaili Ethic and the Canadian Ethic.
2) By saying "Gray did not follow instructions of his client MHI" you are assuming the MHI is Gray's client but I don't know if MHI has ever said he was Gray's client. As Imam, he may have decided to come to Discovery only to settle the dispute between Sachedina and Nagib/Alnaz. As far as we know, Gray said he was directed to seek condemnation for infringement but we know this is a direction from Sachedina, not from the Imam. We know from the defendants that the Imam clearly said that he remembered well the Mehmani and he remembered his directions to continue the publications of Farmans as he was looking for competent people at that time. Obviously in the mind of the Imam, there is no infringement by Nagib/Alnaz. This is further confirmed by the fact that the Imam said to them "we will work together".
Answer to question
All the paper work that I have seen and read, it is because instructions for the litigation are not given by the Imam, but by others who do not also obey the Imam, and will do what they want. Read SS's cross-examination and you will know and understand what I mean.
Reply to the comment in Gujarati
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree Instead of filing a lawsuit Imam could have issued a Farman or Talika directing all murids not to buy the book before the lawsuit was filed. Why did Imam not do so OR when imam met them on 15 Oct 2010, Imam could have directed the 2 murids not to defend the lawsuit and Confirmed to them that Imam is the plaintiff. Imam did not do so.
Before or after the lawsuit Imam could have spoken to the murids by telephone and asked them to stop and deliver all the books to ITREB. Imam did not do so.
Imam wishes and guides us all to resolve differences internally and by discussion amongst ourselves? Why Imam did not do the same in this case.
Dr S Sachedina said on record that Imam directed him to discuss the matter amongst themselves. Dr Sachedina said he did not do so and said he thinks Imam spoke directly to M Manji to file the lawsuit. SS merely informed leaders after the lawsuit was filed.
Therefore you are right to you ask why would Imam file a lawsuit when Imam clearly did not need to file a lawsuit If Imam really wanted to stop the distribution of this Book. Also the question to ask is why Imam would wants only this book to be stopped but not the earlier editions? Imam is meticulous and does not contradict himself.
There are many other questions and concerns too.
Yes Imam could have asked
Yes Imam could have asked his Murid not to keep the book. On the contrary, on 15 October 2010, he instructed that whoever had the book can keep it.
Who Selects the Leaders ?
The process for the appointment of Jamati Mukhi and Kamadias ? :
Step 1 The incumbent Mukhi and Kamadia would first select in order of preference two names for the post of Mukhi and two for the post of Kamadia, excluding their own names.
Step 2 The incumbent Mukhi / Kamadia would then submit these to the President of the council (“the Council President”) and a consultation should take place between three of them together. These discussions should result in a consensus on names and order of preference for the recommendations. However, should the Council President be unable to endorse the recommendations made by the incumbent Mukhi / Kamadia and should they be unable to reach a consensus on then the council President should suggest an additional name for the post of Mukhi and for Kamadia.
Step3 The Council President should then submit the names resulting from the above mentioned consultative process to such person as Mawlana Hazar Imam will have nominated, (Dr S SACHEDINA) . There is a consultation process with SS, who will in turn submit the agreed names to Mawlana Hazar Imam.
Some Leaders have said that Imam asks Leaders sometimes to reconsider their nominated names. If that were true, would Imam ever reject and appoint any one who is not on the nominations submitted by SS ? That would mean there is no confidence in the Leadership and SS. The process for nominating other Jamati and institutional Leaders is essentially the same.
Dr Sachedina & his inner circle
What has the judgment achieved which could not have been achieved by the Leaders meeting the 2 murids after 15 October 2010 (or before) ?
1 Copyright of Imam. This was never questioned. Copyright was registered in Canada after the lawsuit was filed.
2 Infringement of copyright. The Judge came to his conclusion of infringement regarding this Golden Edition. The Judges conclusion is on the basis of accepting evidence given principally by SS and AB regarding what they said about the significance and legal meaning of Mehmani. The 2 murids, Nagib and Alnaz, are appealing based on Imam’s directions (Farman) on 15 Oct 2010 and the judge has erred in arriving at his conclusion. If the 2 murids did not appeal, SS and his inner clique would have used this to continue to exercise excessive autocratic control and marginalize them, and also anyone else at will.. (See also link http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/29740?page=1)
3 The 2 murids and their agents are prohibited from “.. reproducing, copying, giving away, promoting, translating, making and sound or video recording of, performing, communicating electronically, telecommunicating, making available or distributing….” If the 2 murids did not appeal then also SS and MM would arrange further motions against the 2 murids and others who have dared to seek information, comment, or ask question. This would include a lawsuit to close this website. SS and his inner circle have and control substantial personal and community funds, companies and resources. They would issue motions claiming contempt and infringement that the 2 murids (and others?) using the following wordings or combination of them ; copying ? giving away ? translating ? communicating electronically ? telecommunicating ? making available ? distributing ?
4 The 2 murids must deliver the unsold copies of this golden edition to ITREB’s. The judgment calls it an edition which is interesting in itself. The Golden edition is a collection of the other books. However the other books are not a part of this judgment. Therefore they are available to the Jamat who have them. Remembering many Ismailies and most scholars have and are using those books in sharing Imam’s Farmans and guidance with the Jamat. SS, MM and ITREB’s are aware and allowing this. Therefore this was only a personal vendetta against these 2 murids by SS and those involved closely with him. So, what has been really achieved by this lawsuit.
If there was not appeal what would SS and his clique would have done ? - Since 15th October 2010, Judging by what SS and MM have done which they know is against what Imam directed, there is every reason they will be vindictive and doing anything and everything. Remembering Alnaz was never even contacted before the lawsuit was filed and after. Imam would have never done so or authorized it. Frankly no one would do so, except someone who is vindictive, aggressive unreasonable and whose higher “I” (ego) is bigger that anything else and anyone else in the world, in this case even Imam e Zaman. This lawsuit has demonstrated clearly SS has not told the whole truth, and has also been economical with the truth by omission and deliberately so by commission. Remembering also the recent Talika announced in selected JK’s. Why was it not announced in all JK’s and yet it was meant for all Murids. There are many other questions regarding which have not been clarified by LIF (see also link http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/29740?page=2 )
Why does SS not follow Imams directions of farmans ? - Why do SS (AK & MM) do not follow Imam’s directions but seem to follow their own self ego’s and interest. This is essentially because they are following the path of excessive material greed for power and money. If that is not what they are doing then they it would be following Imams Farmans and the spiritual path of our tariquah. It cannot be that because if it was then there would have been more dialogue and most important Imam’s guidance and directions would have been followed. Therefore there can be no doubt that they are motivated by excessive greed for power and money which comes from controlling the institutional funds, companies and resources. A Farman is defined by Hazar Imam in the constitution as “..any pronouncement, direction, order or ruling made or given by Mawlana Hazar Imam..” Therefore what Imam directed on 15th October 2010 is unquestionably a Farman (whether tape recorded or not – A Farman is a Farman)
I wonder If SS and those involved with him closely can look at themselves in the mirror and say “ I have done everything I was directed to do by Hazar Imam to conclude this lawsuit, and I have done everything I could selflessly in discharging my oath of office, my promises and responsibilities I agreed in serving my brothers and sister” They should read again their oath of office and remind themselves what they promised and committed to do. See my comment below of what all Presidents of Councils should contemplate and consider.
What will be the legacy of Dr Sachedina ? The legacy of SS (and his inner clique) will depend on whether they change and change course to lead and serve selflessly to become leaders of change for the good of the Jamat. Leaders are also responsible to manage change - MSMS reminded Leaders that change is inevitable, constant and dynamic. Leaders must proactively manage and lead change towards the needs and desires of the Jamat selflessly. If not what we will end up with is not what we need, or desire nor what is in the best interests of the jamats.
Last week Hazar Imam came to London Ismaili Centre - JK unannounced. Imam smiled and waved to some who were there. There were no instructions from Leaders to hide and stay in their offices as has been the practice for 20 years. Imam also had meetings with the IIS London. Mubaraki to everyone and especially those who were there when Imam visited.
Justice Harrington's Final Order now on Docket
The final Order from Judge Harrington is now on Docket. Appeal pending. The Court file for this Order is the old T-514-10, not to be confused with the new Appeal file number for the Docket.
How exactly in layman's terms is this different from the Previou
I would like to understand how exactly the final judgment is different from the one of January 2011?
If the previous appeal was premature is it still valid? or it needs to be refiled if defendants still wants to pursue? Is it any meaningful?or worth pursuing?
The Notice of Appeal can be perfected [revised]
The Notice of Appeal can be perfected within 30 days of the final Order. The additions in the revised Appeal will tell us of the differences between the Reasons for Judgment of February and the Order from March. There are differences: For example, Mr Gray asked for a very broad declaration including an examination of the defendants which was refused to him. There are also differences in the opposite direction. The Reasons mentioned only Damages while the Order mentions Damages and Profit.. [opens more doors for justifying the Appeal]. The Order as written means the defendants can not take waras to read Farmans in Jamatkhana without being in contempt of court etc..
Refree appointed by Chief Judge
According to judgment, will Defendant be asked to give full account, income & expenses, to decide what will be profit or loss or damages? I think refree has to examine defendants to see if there is profit, loss or damages. The only difference is instead of Mr. Gray to examine defendant refree will examine him. Am I right or am I wrong. I think appeal is now wrong and expensive so let everyone should forgive and forget.
The detailed accounts of
The detailed accounts of invoices and payments for printing have already been given since five months to Mr Gray as part of the Affidavit of Documents from the defendants. They already know the project is deficit and there is no profit.
The detailed accounts
If project is deficit, then no profit, and AK Foundation makes no money. So now the problem is court cost. What is defendant appealing? Why spend more money? Do you think appeal court will say there is no copy right and defendant has not infringe copy right? Why appeal? There is nothing to be gained so best thing is to drop the matter and close the chapter!
The Copyright has never been chalenged.
The Copyright of the Imam over His Farman has NEVER been in question. So the Appeal Court can never say there is no Copyright. Copyright is by law. The defendants have always maintained that Imam has copyright on all his Farmans and also on Farmans of the previous Imams.
The question has always been to know if the defendants had permission and instruction to publish the Farmans.
.
I think you will have to read the whole documentation if you are not familiar with all these issues. Particularly the Copyright issue has abundantly made clear since the beginning that Imam has copyright and defendant have pleaded in December in front of a Judge that even if the law does not give copyright to the Imam over the Farmans of the past Imams, according to defendants, Imam has this copyright because he is the bearer of the same Noor..
As far as money to AKF is concerned, it is an irrelevant issue. The defendants have always contributed as major donors to all Imamat projects and do not need a Court order to contribute to AKF.
THE IMAM'S COPYRIGHT HAS NOT BEEN CHALLENGED@UMED-LIBRARIAN
The question of the LEGAL copyright has been raised here a number of times. A clarification is called for.
The Canadian law is quite clear. Registering a copyright is only “PRIMA FACIE” evidence of copyright ownership. That means that, by just providing the minimum information required to fill in a form and paying a $50 filing fee to a federal bureaucrat in Ottawa, one does not acquire copyright ownership. That issue is always one of actual evidence of original authorship.
In fact, in Drolet v. Stiftung Gralsbotschaft, 2009 FC 17, a case decided at the Federal Court in early 2009, the court stated that, because the copyright registrations were filed so late, the court afforded them little or no weight in making its determinations.
So even if Mr. Tajdin or Mr. Jiwa accept the Agakhan’s copyright in the sayings of previous Ismaili Imams, the other tarika’s of the Shia faith (such as the Itna-ashiris of Iran) will have much to say about Canadian copyrights in materials written in the Middle East over hundreds, if not a thousand year ago.
With respect to Farmans made by the current Imam, copyright could be debatable if the content is a simplistic synthesis of contemporary ideas that are already in the public domain, as is the case of the guidance provided by MHI to the Jamaat. Also as one eminent Canadian copyright lawyer has already opined, copyright in the Farmans might rightfully belong to God, if the Imam is merely echoing Divine instructions, much like the Holy Prophet Mohamed was.
Of course, lectures and speeches given by MHI at various outside institutions to non-murids may be protected, including published books because it would not be considered Farmans (Divine Guidance) nor would the Imam be speaking as Manifest Allah.
Regardless of the fact that
Regardless of the fact that the defendant may recognise Imam's copyright on Farmans of previous Imam, it is evident that other branch of Shi'a Islam will have their say about Farmans of Imams in which they believe, such as Hazrat Ali [Shias in general] , Imam Hakim [Druze have a right to Mowlana Hakim's Farmans], Imam Mustansir [Muslealian Ismailis/ Bhoras have also a right to these] etc..
farman Copyright for Ismaili vs for non-Ismaili = different
Obviously as Ismaili who believe the Imam as "Mazhar of Allah" [Epiphany of God], it would be reasonable to assume that all ismailis have implicit consent to share the Farmans amongst themselves.
From a secular point of view, Copyright subsist with the Imam for his religious [Farmans] and secular [speeches and interview] pronouncements.
To expect a non-Ismaili judge to understand that Imam making a Farman is making it in his capacity as the bearer of the Light of God would be an impossible task. I tried on 8 December 2010 and i could not convince the judge.
How does vara of farman in JK constitute to contempt of court?
The farman read in Jk are not from GJ edition of Kalame zaman .
They are read from the copy provided by the tarika board.
This cannot be infringement by common sense.
Is there more to the order than what is posted on the court docket?
Librarian is legally right.
Librarian is legally right. Common sense and ethics will not come into this or prevail legally. Mr Gray has been going all out for the pound of flesh and it seems he has full legal authority to do so. SS and MM are clearly both of the same mind as Mr Gray.
Regarding this lawsuit, as long as the 2 murids are doing what Imam directed on 15th Oct 2010 they will certainly have Imam's support, blessings and guidance.
The Order is very broad in
The Order is very broad in scope and can be interpreted in many ways. For instance the following sentence in the Order "are permanently prohibited, restrained and enjoined from producing, reproducing, copying, publishing, selling, giving away, promoting, translating, making and sound or video recording of, performing, can be interpreted as when you read the Farmans in Jk, you are "performing". If this is not the interpretation, what would such "performing" word in the judgment mean? In fact it even means that the defendants are forbidden to follow the Farmans. Here is one definition of "performing": The act of performing; the carrying into execution or action [brainyquote.com]
I do not agree @ Umed
"Performing" here means some kind of a drama act or like a play in the auditorium.
"Implementation of farman" is following the farman.
When you read Firman in JK it is first not from GJ Kalame Imame zaman book and second it is read after mukhisaheb says " Bismillah" which is an approval to read it.It is read from book provided by the tarika board.
Now Mukhisaheb has the authority from Imam to okay it.So it cannot be a infringement.
So I do not understand your point of not able to get vara to read farman in JK
There are many meaning to
There are many meaning to performing.
Please read the full judgment on the Docket and see by yourself that in the context of this order it can not mean drama [which is the usual meaning, I agree]
Of course the Defendant can have "varas" for reading Farmans but if SS wants to implement the Order in letter, he can make a lot of harassment to the defendant. By now we all know up to what extent he can go. However the Appeal will resolve this issue.
Why has the case not ended as yet?Mawla has His own plans?
Once there was a sweeper in a well known temple and he was very sincere and devoted.
Every time he saw thousands of devotees coming to worship the Lord, he thought that the Lord is standing all the time and giving help and He must be feeling very tired.
So one day very innocently he asked the Lord whether he can take the place of the Lord for a day so that the Lord can have some relief and rest.
The Deity of the Temple replied, "I do not mind taking a break.
I will transform you like Myself, but you must do one thing.
You must just stand here like Me, smile at everyone and just give benedictions.
Do not interfere with anything and do not say anything.
Remember you are the deity and you just have faith that I have a master plan for everything."
The sweeper agreed to this.
The next day the sweeper took the position of the deity and a rich man came and prayed to the Lord.
He offered a nice donation and prayed that his business should be prosperous.
While going, the rich man inadvertently left his wallet full of money right there.
Now the sweeper in the form of deity could not call him and so he decided to control himself and keep quiet.
Just then a poor man came and he put one coin in the Bowl and said that it was all he could afford and he prayed to the Lord that he should continue to be engaged in the Lord's service.
He also said that his family was in dire need of some basic needs but he left it to the good hands of the Lord to give some solution.
When he opened his eyes, he saw the wallet left by the rich man.
The poor man thanked the Lord for His kindness and took the wallet very innocently.
The sweeper in the form of the Deity could not say anything and he had to just keep smiling.
At that point a sailor walked in.
He prayed for his safe journey as he was going on a long trip.
Just then the rich man came with the police and said that somebody has stolen his wallet and seeing the sailor there, he asked the police to arrest him thinking that he might have taken it.
Now the sweeper in the form of Deity wanted to say that the sailor is not the thief but he could not say so and he became greatly frustrated.
The sailor looked at the Lord and asked why he, an innocent person, is being punished.
The rich man looked at the Lord and thanked Him for finding the thief.
The sweeper in the deity form could no more tolerate it, and he thought that even if the real Lord had been here, he would have definitely interfered, and hence he started speaking and said that the sailor is not the thief but it was the poor man who took away the wallet. The rich man was very thankful as was the sailor.
In the night, the real Lord came and He asked the sweeper how the day was.
The sweeper said, "I thought it would be easy, but now I know that Your days are not easy, but I did one good thing."
Then he explained the whole episode to the Lord.
The Lord became very upset on hearing this whereas the sweeper thought the Lord would appreciate him for the good deed done.
The Lord asked, "Why did you not just stick to the plan?
You had no faith in Me.
Do you think that I do not understand the hearts of all those who come here?
All the donations which the rich man gave was all stolen money and it is only a fraction of what he really has and he wants Me to reciprocate unlimitedly.
The single coin offered by the poor man was the last coin he had and he gave it to Me out of faith.
The sailor might not have done anything wrong, but if the sailor were to go in the ship that night he was about to die because of bad weather and instead if he is arrested he would be in the jail and he would have been saved from a greater calamity.
The wallet should go to the poor man because he will use it in My service.
I was going to reduce the rich man's karma also by doing this and save the sailor also.
But you cancelled everything because you thought you know My plan and you made your own plans."
Moral -- God has plans and justice for everyone....we just have to have patience!!!!!
qhasida
به نام نبي و علي گفتهام
گهرهاي معني بسي سفتهام
همتى كز پا نشستم يا على !
ماندهام، بر گير دستم يا على !
Judge Harrington Final Judgment - major setback for SS & MM
Judge Harrington has issued a final judgment, it should appear on Docket this Monday.
The judgment is a major setback to SS and MM who sought through their own proposed version to harass further the defendants. The declaration sought by Mr Gray was broader in scope then the injunctive relief sought and the Judge refused them the part seeking a blanket condemnation of all of defendants' publications instead of only the Golden Edition and refused permission to misuse the Court's power for their personal vendetta against the defendants.
The fact that the judgment has been finalized means that the Appeal can now proceed and can not be dismissed because the grounds for dismissal put forth by Gray was that the appeal was premature as the judgment was not finalized.
The Judgment has now been finalized and should be posted here soon.
Judgment
I read docket. I do not think this is a setback for SS and MM. I think this is setback for Defendants. According to judgment, 1. There is copyright. 2. Aga Khan owns the copyright to his Farmans, Talika and voice recordings. 3. The Defendants have infringed on the Aga Khan's copyrights. 4. The Defendants will pay damages. That mean the Defendants and can no longer distribute Farmans, Talika or voice recordings of the Aga Khan. Judgment is not good for Defendants. It now depends on appeal who has final victory.
The setback for SS and MM
The setback is that the Judge himself is saying in the final order they were asking too much and therefore the Judge did not grant them everything the wanted.
They wanted more then what was in the reasons for judgment. A real unethical way of trying to use the court process to their personal ends.
And obviously the fact that their motion for dismissal of appeal has now no grounds. So this is another failed attempt by SS and MM to circumvent the court process. And yes it will depend now on what the Appeal Judges decide.
Responsibility
If I was a Council President of Kenya or another country, or the LIF chairperson, I would read the court documents, read the comments, and then seek clarification from SS and MM of especially the directions given by Imam on 15 October 2010.
If SS and MM say Imam is handling this personally, and or , Imam wishes leaders NOT to have a dialogue with the murids, I would write to Imam and request a meeting, to seek guidance and clarification because what Imam is saying in his Farmans, his institutional directives, to the world, & the pluralism Center, are totally contradictory to what SS and MM are telling me, which to me and the jamat is very concerning and confusing.
It is a part of the mandate and responsibility of All leaders to do so, They should do so. I hope they will now do so. It is never too late.
Unauhorized Changes.........
What we (Nagib and I) have been fighting has been against unauthorized changes to the Farmans, and for making Farmans available to the Jamats.
Calendars show new moon falling on March 4, 2011 (check out your calendars). Yet someone somewhere decided to change the Beej to Saturday.
Should not Chandraat Mukhis have insisted in holding Beej despite some unnamed authority saying otherwise. Do the Mukhis represent the Imam or the institutions. I have maintained for over two decades now that Mukhis no longer represent the Imam but they represent the institutions. The proof of it was yesterday. All Mukhis (sp. Chandraat) followed the institutions and not the Imam. Where is their loyalty?
MHI said in 1992: seek accountability and answerability of the Institutions? Instead they are followed blindly, after all, if they did not they'd not be appointed again. Betray the Imam for the appointments, isn't it so? in 1978, MHI warned many times during His first visit to Canada: eg. There is no reason from within or outside to make any changes to our traditions............. yet most, if not all, follow the institutions and not the Imam. Now and then I hear arguments, but the Imam has appointed them? Yet that very Imam URGED the Jamats to seek accountability and answerability of the institutions? Why did He ask us to do that? And are we doing what He urged us to do?
Beej to vanish
I hear that Beej will be suppressed. The way it will be done is in the next 2 or 3 years all Beej Chandrat will be moved from Friday to either Saturday of Thursday in the calendars. To my knowledge, there is no Farman of the present Imam on Beej, there is only those of the previous Imam. Let me know if I am wrong.
beej
if you know there was a private firman for beej by our imam in Dar es salaam, I know person who was present there ,He goes to donmills Jk
Private Farman.
It would help if the individual gave his version (including his name) for all to hear and avoid such guidance from being lost.
Farmans of past Imams
I don't know on the subject of Beej this Friday, tough I kept it anyway, but what Imam said clearly on 15 October 2010 in Toronto about Farmans of the past Imams is as follow "They are Mine, I am the Imam of the Time."
Discussion on Beej should be
Discussion on Beej should be redirected to the following link, not in the discussion on the lawsuit..
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=view...
Leaders should do so, if
Leaders should do so, if they have not because also, Imam e Zaman regularly reminds Leaders to ask themselves if they have done everything they should in carrying out their responsibilities to serve the Jamat. Now is a good time to ask and I hope Leaders are asking this question to themselves
If any Leader is not able to fulfill the responsibilities they accepted, then they should themselves resign gracefully, and allow other murids who are capable and happy to do do.
Appeal
Few years back, I read an article ‘Ghandi’ written by his one of the ardent follower Aacharya Vinoba Bhave. One interesting thing in that article which I remember well is the process followed by Gandhi in making vital decision in his life.
In making very vital decision of his life, Gandhi did not rely entirely on is own judgment. On the other hand, he used to get up at midnight and pray to God, Ram, to guide him making such decision. According to him, with such prayers, hi used to get a clear cut inner voice from inside of him and he made such decision based on it.
We Murid of HI have, however, an added advantage, and that is, we know Him; and also according to His many Farmans, He is always with each of us in Batin at each and every moment.
Being Ismaili and having management background, I certainly use my intellect and management decision making process, but I don’t rely entirely on exploring different options and weighing pros and cons. I allot extra time besides usual BK Bandagee time for His guidance – particularly when very important decision of very far consequences is to be made. I call it the voice from my inner self (અંતર આત્માનો અવાજ). And this process has worked wonderfully well with me.
Being Akle juzz (અકલે જૂઝ), our intellect has its own limitations, and we must not rely only on it, particularly win decision is to be made in the matter related to faith or of principle.
The 72 people accompanying Imam Hussain prior to Karabala tragedy were free to leave Imam Hussain, and even Imam Hussain permitted them to do so. But they did not do so and stayed with Imam Hussain. They certainly knew the outcome of their decision, for they wer facing the fully armed and mighty army of Simar/Yazid, and yet instead of using their intellect and logic, they listened to their inner voice in making that vital decision, for them it was a matter of their faith. Certainly, they were eliminated physically by the mighty army but spiritually they elevated their Ruh(રૂહ). Here is the relevant Farman from MSMS.
“જાન જાય, માલ જાય, ઔલાદ જાય, જવા દેજો. ઈમાન સલામત રહ્યું તો સઘળું સલામત રહ્યું”
I sincerely believe that Nagib and Al Naz too have listened to their inner voice prior to making the most important decision of their life, namely -- filing the appeal against the judgment of a single judge, without bothering much about the outcome or consequences. And believe me, Maula must be happy with the decision.
@Kassamali
Ya Ali Madad Mr Kassamali. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Would it be possible for you to translate Our Beloved Sultan Mohamed Shah's Farman into English language? Thank You.
Never ever would Imam say
Never ever would Imam say something to the world and the Jamat, and then say the opposite to the Leaders.
Today the new prime minister designate in Egypt stood with the Muslim brotherhood and promised to work together in the interest of the people. This was unimaginable 2 months ago. So there is still hope that the leaders will meet the murids, have dialogue, and work together in accordance with Imams guidance and directions.
This would make the Jamat and all the Leaders very happy. there is every reason to make everyone happy.
Inner voice and staunch faith of conviction!
To appeal to not only Canadian judge but may be MHI's decision? (For majority of people, MHI has initiated the lawsuit))
To have this conviction by Nagib and Alnaz (That MHI wants us to do this) requires huge courage and very staunch faith I think. No ordinary Ismaili can venture this.
If Nagib and Alnaz are courageous enough to accept such a huge challenge there must be a "divine will" which is strengthening them. Otherwise, it could be nerve wrecking in the least to downright impossible for a regular person. The judgment and latest talika language and content are enough to send anyone into total discouragement and fright.
Reason for Appeal
The reason I appealed is not courage but I appealed because the Imam said on 15 October to me and Alnaz that he remembered well the Mehmani of 1992 and that he gave instructions to continue publishing the Farmans.
So when the Harrington judgment said the opposite of what Imam said, it was a duty for us to appeal in order to reverse a decision which was clearly going against the Imam's own sayings.
Maybe a little courage is needed but most of all I would say a lot of patience is needed.
Nagib
Canadian Federal Court / Appeal rules 343 (1)
343(1) Within 30 days after the filing of a notice of appeal, the parties shall agree in writing as to the documents, exhibits and transcripts to be included in the appeal book and shall file that agreement.
Why has Imam not replaced SS and MM so far?
I was watching debates and analysis on the present revolutions and protests in the Arab nations. Everyone agrees that there can be no meaningful change if a dictator is removed unless the dictatorship within is also changed. Dictatorship is collectively the cliques of leaders and autocrats who acted and act with the same motivation impunity or self interest as the dictator. The removal of a dictator is therefore only a beginning, a first necessary step in a journey of change
By replacing SS and a few of leaders, will that bring about the desired change; and will the motivation and culture of the institution also change simultaneously? Certainly not simultaneously or immediately. If so then institutionally it is better not to start with replacing SS. There is no question that the change process has started.
Leading change and changing leadership requires many complex considerations such as change readiness, timing, time period, resistance to change, fundamentals, empowerment, cultural change, chaos, institutional change, behavioural transformation and more.
The speech by Imam on 15th Oct 2010 gives a clear indication of the critical need for advancing mindsets which constructive engagement (dialogue).
“As we go forward, we hope we can discern more predictably and pre-empt more effectively those conditions which lead to conflict among peoples. And we also hope that we can advance those institutions and those mindsets which foster constructive engagement. The world we seek is not a world where difference is erased, but where difference can be a powerful force for good, helping us to fashion a new sense of cooperation and coherence in our world, and to build together a better life for all”
I hope the recent appeal documents filed in court will be posted. I continue to pray that there will be dialogue (constructive engagement) between the leaders and the 2 murids to conclude this lawsuit. Why would Imam say to the whole world and the Jamat, that we must always have dialogue and constructive engagement, and then Imam directs SS & MM not to have any dialogue or any constructive engagement whatsoever with these 2 murids ?
Mawla never removes anyone in the middle of the tenure.
With ongoing lawsuit and unfinished business of current tenure period, it is highly unlikely that Mawlana Hazar Imam would remove the significant leaders. He will create circumstances where they themselves will go. Mawla is way too merciful to remove any sevadharis. But he is mighty enough to bring everyone to justice.
I agree there should be dialogue and cooperation but change in leadership is a very important step in changing the mindset. Otherwise, it will take ages before the change can be achieved. Change of leadership is very likely at the conclusion of the case.Moreover, it is necessary, I think.
However, MHI knows it the best how and when: it will all work out for sure in a favorable manner.
Quoting MHI
I have a suggestion. Since both sides seem equally capable of quoting MHI to support their positions, can we try looking at the issues raised in this litigation using reason, intellect, history and tradition to justify our various points of view?
After all, in their recent quest for a fair and just society, millions of Arabs got their inspiration not from the Quran but from their understanding of the concepts of freedom and democracy. So equally, Ismailis should be capable of using their own rational thoughts when seeking the best way to run a progressive community.
What I mean is that, do we really need to invoke MHI? He is our spiritual Father – His guidance should be invoked in matters that have Certainty and are Eternal – matters over which He has Divine Inspiration.
Do our social and business affairs need divine guidance or just good governance?
For example, in matters relating to whether we should raise funds to build new seniors homes or whether we should help with suicide control telephone hotlines, can we not be trusted to discuss and come to a rational conclusion ourselves? If Libyans in Benghazi, after 40 years of brutalisation and in the middle of a civil war can still put together a provincial government to run the liberated areas or if Ismailis living in the West are capable of choosing Members of Parliament (and give them power over their lives through laws on death penalty), then I would argue that Ismails are capable of resolving the affairs of our relatively small community through the use of our intellect (which is also a gift of the Divine)
So as a start, let’s talk about the issue of Farmans and Ginans distribution.
If the APEX institutions have decided to enact a rule to control the distribution of MHI’s spoken words, with the power to edit what He has already publicly said, then they have the right to do so and in the future, every Ismaili is obliged to comply.
By the same token, these institutions have to acknowledge that in the past, private distribution was not only acceptable, it was the only way. And Tajdin and Jiwa cannot now be singled out for punishment for an act that many Ismailis in good faith also did.
Such retroactive punishment is unfair under Canadian norms and equally unacceptable in a civilized society anywhere. In fact, it would be considered entrapment and foul. Period.
If the above logic is not understood by those who yield authority amongst us and they are intent on persecuting Tajdin & Jiwa, then they, in turn have a right to defend themselves fully under the law and to the extent of their capability. And I would suggest, it is duty of their fellow community members to support them in their just struggle, not only because they will also face such inequities in the .future but also because it is right to do so
These are rules of a society ruled by fairness. And this is how we and the Agakhan Foundation can help build civil societies, whether it is here, in the Arab countries or elsewhere in the world.
I agree with you. Imam
I agree with you. Imam guides us on spiritual and non spiritual matters. Imamat & our faith encompasses both. The issue is whether leaders are following one or both and to what extent. Excellent rules, guidance and policies are there for governance and implementation.
This lawsuit is timely because if we as a community and leaders are not following either or both between ourselves then we could very quickly loose credibility that Ismailies have embraced and are championing pluralism, good governance, value aligned ethics, and "constructive engagement" The resulting impact can be significant
Do not leaders see this coming and can be avoided ? If so why not engage in a dialogue to conclude this lawsuit as directed by Imam on 15 Oct 2010 ?
@Abdul
Dear, Cher Abdul, Ya ali Madat,
Ton intervention, ton “cri du cœur” ne peut laisser indifférent un esprit scientifique, un intellectuel fier d’être ismaili que je suis. Ce troisième millénaire que l’on nous dit « spirituel » nous promet déjà de superbes surprises, innovations, avancées qui mettent l’humain, l’humanisme au centre des préoccupations majeures ! tout ce que notre Véneré Hazar Imam prône de tous Ses vœux : la Foi, l’éthique de la Foi, l’intellect, la justice, la tolérance, la générosité, l’humilité, la diversité et le pluralisme culturels !
Permets moi de te dire que de t’avoir lu fut un réconfort, m’a donné espoir et confiance au moment où le comportement de nos leaders, surtout après la Mulaquat du 15 octobre conduit non seulement moi, mais plusieurs d’entre nous dans ce au désespoir, au decouragement ! la preuve, moi et beaucoup d’autres sommes restés silencieux, circonspects…..abasourdis, tristes de la tournure que les événements ont pris ! MHI durant ce Mulaquat a eu une « divine intervention » faite de sagesse, de compréhension et s’est conduit comme notre Père à tous, et Il a prolongé ou acté cette vision qu’Il a dans nos relations entre frères et sœurs pendant Son discours en public sur le Pluralisme. Je ne comprends pas pourquoi nos leaders n’ont pas saisi cette occasion pour enterrer une fois pour toute « ce empoisonnant » lawsuit !
Depuis le début de cet absurde « lawsuit », j’ai écrit ici qu’il fallait laisser MHI en dehors de ce différend, que mon intime conviction reste que MHI n’a pas initié ce procès, n’a pas souhaité ce déballage de notre querelle familiale sur la place publique ! que cette querelle d’égo, de personnes… nous était très nuisible à l’image de marque de notre Communauté et peut porter préjudice à nos enfants, petits enfants….
Et il est temps de s’indigner comme le clame Hessel en Europe ! Et nous devons assumer notre position ! Nous devons être nombreux à la signifier aux leaders avec modération oui, mais avec cette intransigeance morale qui doit être le fer de lance d’un engagement intellectuel et de notre attachement indéfectible à l’Autorité Spirituelle à l’Imam du temps présent ! Il nous faut exprimer encore plus fort notre souhait de plus de fraternité, d’acceptation de la méritocratie, de la diversité et du pluralisme dans notre propre communauté ! Il nous faut utiliser la force de l’Intellect ! La société civile doit aussi émerger dans notre propre Jamat.
Mowlana Hazar imam a bien tracé la feuille de route durant ses nombreux Darbars du Golden Jubilee : la lutte contre la grande pauvreté, la défense de la dignité des personnes âgées, l’Education et la santé pour tous…. Attelons-nous tous à cette feuille de route et mettons toutes nos énergies au service de cette magnifique œuvre et ce ne sont pas les talents, les volontaires et les convictions qui manquent. Nous voulons que nos leaders qui ont la confiance de MHI nous épaulent, nous écoutent et que l’on arrête ces disputes, ce déballage de nos problèmes vraiment secondaires sur la place publique ! Il est urgent de na pas rester silencieux, ni aveugle ! C’est l’ère de la conscience éthique !
Ya ali madat,
Mohez nato
Ps j’autorise toute personne de ce forum à traduire en anglais mon texte. Merci d’avance.
Translation French to English( Google) @Abdul
@ Abdul
On March 3rd, 2011 NATO Mohez (not verified) says:
Dear, Dear Abdul, Ya ali Madat,
Your response, your "heart's cry" can not be ignored a scientific mind, an intellectual Ismaili proud I am. This third millennium we are told that "spiritual" we already promises great surprises, innovations, advances that make human, humanism in the center of the major concerns! everything our venerable Hazar Imam calls for all His wishes: Faith, Ethics, Faith, intellect, justice, tolerance, generosity, humility, diversity and cultural pluralism!
Let me tell you, have you read that was a comfort, gave me hope and confidence as the behavior of our leaders, especially after the October 15 Mulaquat led not only myself but many of us in this despair, discouragement! proof, I and many others have remained silent, cautious ... .. stunned, sad about the turn events have taken! MHI during this Mulaquat had a "divine intervention" made of wisdom, understanding, and conducted himself as the Father of us all, and He has extended this vision or deed that he has in our relationships with siblings during his speech Pluralism in public.
I do not understand why our leaders do not seize this opportunity to bury once and for all "this poison" lawsuit!
Since the beginning of this absurd "lawsuit", I wrote here that we should let MHI outside this dispute, which remains my firm conviction that MHI did not initiate this lawsuit, did not want to unpack this our family quarrel in the public square! that this feud of ego, people ... we were very damaging to the image of our community and can harm our children, grandchildren ....
And it's time to be indignant cries as Hessel in Europe! And we must take our stand! We must be likely to mean the leaders in moderation, yes, but with the moral intransigence must be the spearhead of an intellectual commitment and our unwavering commitment to the spiritual authority to the Imam of our time! We must express our desire even stronger over brotherhood, acceptance of meritocracy, diversity and pluralism in our own community! We need to use the power of the intellect! Civil society should also emerge in our own Jamat.
Mowlana Hazar Imam has drawn the road-map for its many Darbar of the Golden Jubilee: the fight against extreme poverty, defending the dignity of the elderly, education and health for all. ... Let us get all this road-map and put all our energies to this beautiful piece and it's not talent, volunteers and beliefs that are missing. We want our leaders who are trusted by MHI support us, we listen and that we stop these disputes, the unpacking of our problems really secondary in the public square! It is urgent didn't stay silent or blind! This is the era of ethical conscience!
Ya ali Madat,
Mohez nato
Ps I authorize any person of this forum to translate my English text. Thank you in advance.
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@ Abdul
Your comment is just brilliant!
please write more often.
We need person like you of intellect to contribute actively to the evolving knowledge society of the Ismailis.
We need strong pillars like you to support MHI 's aspirations.
Shree Krishna's advice...
Shree Krishna: Remember Parth (Arjun) the one who sides with the unrighteousness is a sinner himself. He is like you moving away from the path of duty, like you he does not support the ones fighting righteousness thus is considered supporting unrighteousness, becomes unrighteousness himself. (Arjun was refusing to fight with Duryojaan's army when Shree Krishna delivered Geeta (Guidances to convince Arjun to fight, that it is the right thing to fight unrighteousness without worrying about the consequences of the fight)) and says the above to Arjun, telling Arjun if he did not fight Duryojan, then it would be like he is Duryojan as well. Ultimately, Arjun becomes convinced and commences the fight against unrighteousness.
last three lines of translation
The last three lines of Gujarati translation, I missed is as under. Sorry for that, the error was indevertently occurred.
"The two drafts sent by Gray, one after the other, for 'consent judgement' tells us a lot of things. Which draft was based on the suggestion of Hazar Imam, the first one or the second one? What conclusion one should make for two different drafts?
It is my request to all Ismaili brothers and sisters that please fully think over all the above points, and then decide as to what is wrong and what is right. "
Drafts - were any of the two versions correct??
Two consents were drafted by Gray. Good question posed by her: what conclusions to draw from this fact of contradictory consents, but I pose another question: were either of the consents correct? did either of them accord with the Guidance given by our Imam?
My Aritcle was not posted because you are a PSEUDO ISMAILI
Whoever is the editor of this portal - he or she is a MATHER CHOD for not posting my comments. You are a pseudo imposter mother fucking piece of shit. I will design my own portal to rival this shit site and fucking kick your ass out of this world. You are a bunch of pseudo Ismailis This site is run by a bunch of ITNA ASHARIS shit heads in Canada.
Ninda
It is a different thing to discuss generally the salient features of this case than to cross the boundary into ninda. Calling SS and other leaders names, abusing them etc all fall under the category of ninda. In this way, they will progress even further and their sins will be forgiven and the people doing ninda will suffer. So please, on this site especially let us make sure our discussions do not deteriorate into ninda. A good example of ninda is likening SS to Hosni Mubarak. Such comments do not bode well for us: "ninda thaaye tyaathi uthine jayiye". Also, do not forget: "par ninda bhai jagat khuvaari, seer paun narage padi jiyeji". So leave such dangerous nindas out of our site; let them do it if they want on the other site but over here we should beware.
Ya Ali madad
Sister Zeenatara
Agree to Disagree
Ya Ali Madad
I fully agree with you Sister, but I would like to add to your comment:
There are individuals on either side of the fence backing the respective parties. But the individuals should remember in humility that their opinions should be guided by their convictions, and that they may be wrong. We are all brothers and sisters and should realize that we may be in error and therefore should tone down the criticism of those we don’t agree with. In other words let us work towards a higher standard of dialogue and refrain from using harsh and derogatory language. Let us respectfully agree to disagree.
Only the self-righteous and the die-hard will in pride trumpet their side and proclaim the other side wrong. There is a lot of such trash floating on the internet.
There are Farmans which
There are Farmans which guide us all not to back bite and talk behind peoples back (Nindha) . In fact we must speak directly and openly to the persons concerned. We must do so in humility and respect at all times. So to that extent we are are not doing Nindha in sharing our thoughts and concerns with our leaders and our Imam. Thanks to this website and the editorial team for the excellent resources, information and also an enabling forum. Thank you for a most needed and wonderful seva.
Are Leaders disrespectful….deceitful ?
Soulmate in Vancouveritte says ; Mr. Bloglaw: I am still waiting for you to answer these questions. If you find my questions too complicated, you may seek help from NT, AJ and the rest of your Heritage waezins including librarian-umed.
First question: Is it disrespectful, deceitful, hypocritical or wrong for Nagib Tajdin who calls himself Ismaili to make a statement in the presence of the Imam that he is sorry, that he does not maintain any allegations of fraud and that he withdraws all allegations of fraud; and then to continue maintaining those allegations? Yes or No will suffice?
Second question: Is it disrespectful or loathsome for any person who calls himself Ismaili to get a court order, like NT did, to force the Imam, against his wishes, to appear for cross examinations? Yes or No will suffice?
If you do not clearly answer those questions in the affirmative or fail to answer them altogether, then we’ll know for sure that all of you are disrespectful, loathsome, hypocritical and a deceitful persons. Yes?
BLOGLAW REPLY:
Thanks. If I do not answer, in your view, I am disrespectful, loathsome, hypocritical and deceitful. So using your reasoning If leaders, you, Editor, or anyone does not answer questions, to you, they are all disrespectful, loathsome, hypocritical and deceitful ? Yes ? I sincerely hope you are not applying the same reasoning and thinking about the Commander in Chief ? J Taubah Taubah.
For example about,
1 Precisely what Imam directed on 15 October 2011 (Leaders have not replied) and
2 about more meritocracy less nepotism, Editor of Vancouverite, I and many have asked since the lawsuit started nearly a year ago ?
3 About why non availability or access to Famrans in all JK’s ?
4 About why certain books (Scholars/Farmans) are not published by our institutions/IIS despite directions from Hazar Imam.
If you answer my question I will respond to your 2 questions fair ? If you don’t I will not call you what you are calling me. J Fair ?
@Bloglaw re: above post of Feb. 19th (Are leaders...)
786
Touché, Bloglaw!! :-) to your first paragraph and your last line !
I don't know where you get the energy to patiently explain and reply to some of those comments on that other site...Stay that way, Bloglaw!
Ya Aly madad.
Leaders not replied?
Here people are saying Talika is perforated if that is the case this coming out from SS & MM. So what other reply are you waiting for?
Fraud / Forgery - is this the same?
I think all forgeries are fraud but not all frauds are forgeries. Is there more here then forgeries. Why did the Imam mention the word fraud? Imam never use a word in a haphazard manner.
As far as we know, Nagib has withdrawn allegations of fraud against Mrs Parkes, the staff of Hazar Imam as she sent the forged letter without knowing it was forged.
Nagib has not reinstated any accusations of "fraud" against anyone from "Staff".
In my opinion, who is an Ismaili and who is not an Ismaili is better left to the Imam to decide.
Anyone who thinks that one can "force" the Imam into a meeting without him wanting to attend does fully not understand what are the powers of the Imam. Our forefathers used to say that even for a leave of a tree to move, it needs permission from the Imam.
Analysis of the truth
Some time back, ‘An ordinary Murid’ has sent Gujarati comments by an octogenarian lady in respect to this case. Here is an English translation of the same.
“In my opinion, this case has been a type of Kasoti of almost all of us, Ismailis. I am surprised and pained to learn that how come so many Ismailis took it for granted that the case has been filed by Hazar Imam, and that too for an ordinary matter? And what did Nagib do? Just because he printed out a big professional type book containing all the Farmans. First of all I am not ready to believe that our Maula Bapa -- whose love for all of us, His Murids, is unlimited and who has been always Rahem Rahimi (infinite merciful) beyond our imagination, and because of Him the entire Ismaili global community feels secured and is prosperous -- would file such a case against His own Murids who love Him too much. And also asks for claims and damages! How can I believe this? Irrespective of this, let us use our mind to analysis this. For there are many Farmans of our Maula, where He wants us to use our intellect in all our matters including religion.
1. If we go thru 1400 years of history of Ismailism, not a single Imam has ever filed a case against anyone in Qazi’s court. Similarly, in modern time also, no Imam has filed any case against any one in any court. Then just for an ordinary matter, is it our same Maula who filed this case against His own beloved Murids?
2. If we go through each and every small and big events of our first Pir and all time great prophet Hazarat Muhammad, we can see that how affectionately and lovingly he used to behave even with those who were after his life and wanted to kill him. And it is for this reason only, he was able to convert all those illiterate, backward and idol worshipper Arabs into the fold of Islam.
His unique act of magnanimity towards an old woman who hated him and hence used to throw garbage on him regularly is an example of his simplicity and humility. While my Maula is not only 50th Pir but He Himself is also Khudavande Almin, and hence His love and affection for even other human beings is unlimited. I am surprised as to why are we not experiencing His that love and affection? Is this not a very critical deficiency in our in understanding, our intellect and Iman.
3. During appointment of first caliphate as well as the third caliphate, egregious and flagrant injustice was done to Maula Ali, and yet for the shake of Islam and peace, he agreed to become fourth caliph in almost worst critical condition. And even after becoming caliph, instead of taking any revenge He forgave them. On Yazid’s order and without any sense, Simar, with the help of his mighty army, mercilessly massacred Imam Hussain and unarmed Murids. And yet, for the shake of Islam and peace my Maula Zainal Abedin did not avenge with Simar or Yazid. History is witness to this.
4. Mulla Yazdi and his accomplices killed our 45 Imam Khalilullah. The king of Iran Fatehali Shah Kachar brought these criminals before our 46th Imam Aga Hasanali Shah , but my maula after lashing them with sticks released them.
5. Once, by order of vice prime minister,Vallabh Patel, of India at that time, our 48th Imam MSMS was searched bodily. But our Maula did not take it seriously. On the other hand, our HI is busy implementing so many projects in India and, even donated Agakhan palace of Puna to the government of India in honor of Mahatma Gandhi. So how can I believe that the same Maula claims damages from his own Murids, and that too for that petty reason that they used to print his own precious Farmans and made them available to their other Ismaili brothers and sisters?
Now let us take examine some points of this case.
1. From 1998 till December 2009, Nagib has published many Farman books, and no body took any notice of it seriously, even our Maula who is Aqle Qull did not say anything or sent any instruction to Nagib. But the question was raised only when Nagib has sent ‘Golden book ‘which he has finished in December 2009 and sent to Hazar Imam with a letter. The book did not reach to Hazar Imam because it can reach to Him only through our top leader Dr. Sachedina. For reason known to many, some arguments took place between Nagib and SS. This was too much for megalomaniac SS, and he immediately sent a harsh letter to Nagib in the name of HI, and instantly another similar letter followed, and at the same time two Murids were ridiculed in JKs with the announcement in the name of LIF. Not only this, but hurriedly a case was also filed in the federal court of Canada against the two Murids. The question is: Is it possible to get instant permission from HI to file such a case?
2. These so called two letters of HI, which were sent to Nagib, differed greately in so far as Signatures of HI is concerned. Again the question is: Did HI intentionally do this, or the matter was something else?
3. The wordings of the two letters and the case contents were severe, scornful and contemptuous so far so that mercilessly, even financial claim was also demanded. Would my maula use all such words for those Murids, while he, on the other hand, has spread over, without any discrimination, all kinds of philanthopaic projects for the huminity all over the world.
4. If it is believed that the two letters were written by HI, and the case was filed by Him, the wordings of which were very contemptuous and even contained financial claim, why was He not ready to file affidavit in the court. Had the affidavit was filed; the court verdict would have been there in the first month only and that too in His favour. While He did not hesitate to file an affidavit in the ‘Stud’ case in which He was not directly related to it at all. Why such an anomaly? What does it indicate, think?
5. For Discovery, Nagib has demanded only five minutes, the court awarded maximum 15 minutes, but HI took 30 minutes. Mr. Gray, for his own advantage, got that meeting recorded for five minutes and yet, there was not a single word or sentence of HI wherein He had said ,’ this case is filed by me’. Thus Mr. Gray used his cunning strategy and deception in the recording to which blessings of our two top leaders were also given.
6 Nagib and Al Naz already gave their accounts of what happened in the meeting, what guidance, what advice and suggestions HI gave, but surprisingly our these two top leaders kept mum. They even did not reject the version of the meeting given by the two Murids. Do note Jamat have the right to know about what HI said or advised? While when there was no necessity at all, these leaders felt appropriate to make an announcement, in hurry, thru the LIF platform to ridicule and defame the two Murids. And now total silence, why?
Thus it is clear that whatever detail given by the two Murids about the discovery meeting was totally right.
7. HI made one proposal or request to,” Nagib, withdraw allegation you made agaist my staff.” Nagib instantly agreed and also said sorry. And our these two leaders and Gray became very pleased with this, but our editor of Vancouverte got so much delighted that he, without any analysis and understanding of the word ‘staff’, instantly printed out,’ Plaintiff was HI himself, and Nagib has already withdrew his allegation he had made against Dr. Sachedina and Manji and also said sorry to HI. ’
Let us understand as what does ‘staff’means. Sachedina and Manji both are honorary and are leaders. If HI’s intention was to get these two leaders exonerated by Nagib, then HI would have said,” Nagib, withdraw allegations against two of my leaders and my staff as well and say sorry to them..” But HI did not say anything like that. On the other hand if we go thru all the Farmans of HI to date, he has always used the word ‘directors/ members, all Mukhis and Kamdias of the entire glob too should be counted as staff leaders’, without exception, whenever He made Farmans related to them.
If we count Sachedina and Manji as staff members, then all the global Federal Presidents, all ITERB chairmen, all health and education presidents/ chairmen, all Vice chairmen, all federal members and central institutes’ members. But this is surely not the case.
HI used the word ‘staff ‘ for specific purpose only, because Nagib has made allegations against not only these two leaders but also against some staff at Aiglemont .
By using this specific word HI gave an indirect hint to Nagib that, “I do not declare these two leaders as innocent, but yes, my staff is not involved in this. They have done only their duty.”
[added last few lines feb 21:]
The two drafts sent by Gray, one after the other, for 'consent judgement' tells us a lot of things. Which draft was based on the suggestion of Hazar Imam, the first one or the second one? What conclusion one should make for two different drafts?
It is my request to all Ismaili brothers and sisters that please fully think over all the above points, and then decide as to what is wrong and what is right.
@Kassamali
Ya Ali Madad. Many thanks for the English translation. Thank You.
Re: Englis translation of the Gujarati post
Thank you for fulfilling the wish of so many by producing this translation. Please know that the last 3 lines are missing, and they are very important. No offense meant!
translation
Can somebody at least translate those last 3 lines. Personnally, am not seeking any professional translation just to understand the full message. God bless this lady. she cleared a lot of doubt in my mind.
Meritocracy Vs money - Money Talks
Sadrudin says to Bloglaw - Bloglaw – Our faith goes through phases, Sariya, Tariqat, Haqikat and Marfit. In Sariya everything is exterior, so if people show up still it is okey. In Marifit people do not have themselves – no ego, no arrogance, everything start with Imam and ends with Imam – simply to them Imam is the lords of Universes and they have Imam and therefore, they are richest person on this earth. In context to Murid, there are two types one is Momin and other is just Murid.
In context to appointments in JK, as per Nagib Talika percolate from top but appointments are percolating from bottom. Are you trying to percolate to top? The path of Marfit is the one to follow, but it required first you pass through Sriya. This Is like, you say prayers in JK means physically presence and mind may be wondering somewhere else. Because one cannot focus that does not mean one should not do prayer. One day, they will enter in next phase of faith So Alnaz/Nagib and their followers should decide what they wanted to be – Momin or just Murid. Appointments percolate from bottom up. Have a gut to communicate here so people can reply you. Other sites they only post who agrees with them, thus you will remain ignorance along with defendants.
BLOGLAW REPLIES –
Sadrudin – Editor at Vancouverite also does not post all posts and the one’s from me.
Regarding Appointments you are wrong. They do not come from the bottom. You should find out the process. I agree the bottom are involved in a small part of the whole process (only for show). The final decisions are made by the top leaders nationally and with leaders in question, and especially the key and strategic controlling Leadership including main Mukhi’s. Imam gives approval based on those recommendations which are vetted and agreed by SS. When and in case Imam asks leaders to reconsider in some cases they already have a plan B ! In any case after the appointments are made do you know who calls the shots, and what are the ground realities. You are right that by the time the process percolates (passes through stages) to the top, it is by and from the top ! J
Look at the lawsuit as an example. Before and since the lawsuit was filed, No consultations amongst the leaders as directed by Imam (SS said so), no dialogue with the 2 murids, no contact with Alnaz to even discuss, not following Farnmans or constitution, regarding our process of conciliation, no access to Farmans, no meetings after 15 Oct 2010, leaders instructed by SS not to discuss, Leaders not willing to talk about this case or give information, no responses or announcements from LIF or clarification regarding the talika announced recently only in some JK’s but meant clearly for all Ismailies around the world etc etc ?.
Regarding the phases of religious enlightenment, wisdom and knowledge. You also need to look at both the Zahiri (Exoteric) and the batini (esoteric) holistically and inclusively. And of course also the balance necessary between din and dunya in our journey through the phases. Remembering also our faith includes the material and the spiritual. I agree if we cannot focus does not mean we should not pray. Imam has made Farmans and given guidance to us. Finally why do you think Imam and leaders are still calling Alnaz and Nagib as murids of the Imam. Also you need to reconsider your definition and differentiation between a murid and a momin. Why do Al Waez’s in JK call everyone present Momin’s- Momino for example ?
Activity on the Docket for T-514-10
There is a lot of activity on Docket:
http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_RE_info_e.php?...
Alnaz and Nagib have filed their reply to Gray's Motion in accordance with paragraph 77 of the Reasons for Judgment of the Honourable Mr. Justice Harrington dated January 7, 2011, Plaintiff's Rule 369 motion for judgment.
Meritocracy Vs money - Money Talks
Editor Vancouverite says “time for money to take a back seat to loyalty. The illusion that people will remain loyal regardless of how they are treated is delusional. When money talks louder than actions, there will be friction and bad feelings. This needs to be brought to the attention of our leaders. Simply put, give meritocracy a bigger place than wealth. If you fail to do this expect an undercurrent of resentment to build. Loyalists would never understand how, a man paying for the forensic examination of HH’s letter is able to sit in his vicinity at the same time frame while he is funding a fight against all that is holly to Ismailis “.
REPLY BY BLOGLAW Editor – Surely you cant be SO naive to believe that money does not talk institutionally in our community. Look at who are the Jamati and institutional key and controlling leaders today and the strategic appointments and appointees in the last 15 years ? The words controlling and strategic is in reference to materialism ( controlling money, staff and power). Who are really calling those shots today. I am also surprised you say “Simply put, give meritocracy a bigger place than wealth” I am happy you are finally agreeing to some of the widening gaps highlighted by this lawsuit, and the need for meritocracy is one of them. So you agree leaders are not meritocratic.
MR Shivji says , “YAM, MR. News EDITOR! The Ismaili Muslims Institution is in absolute and without qualification, conscious about this type of exceptionally large donation. But on other hand, it appears the IMI could be ignorant or may have the partial inclination to ignore the truth under the alleged reason that big donations are accepted by any registered Institution.
“..I agree with you that the average Ismaili Muslims will never be able to merit a seat in these kinds of functions because of their size of charitable donation. This donated money could be against the law, could be slush fund, and could not have its legitimacy. Allah Hafez, “
REPLY BY BLOGLAW Mr Shivji; Your comment raises many more questions. Who decides what are the intentions of those who donate and who decides to invite them ? Is it the Leaders or is it the Imam ? According to you and Editor it is the leaders. Therefore the leaders (SS & MM) control and allowed this to happen.
As Editor says If leaders are upsetting ordinary members of the Jamat. Should they do so ? Should they return the donations ? If leaders allowed this then;
The most important question is;
Do you agree that therefore the leaders in question are also capable of what the lawsuit has highlighted and what the 2 murids are saying ?
Since you and Editor agree that this is the fault of the Leaders what should they do ? should they resign ? I hope Leaders will accept the Editors invitation to respond to his comments and suggestions.
Mr Shivji, all donations are and should be welcomed. I am surprised at your suggestions and amazed that you say that our institutional autonomy and independence is being interfered by the large donors and their donations. Are you now suggesting that Leadership are not independent or autonomous. If so; what is the role of Imam and why would Imam allow the leadership to do so ? Are the Leaders exceeding their authority in the lawsuit ?
Of course; you and Editor are merely speculating that some large Ismaili donors may be assisting the 2 murids financially. Imam and the leaders still refer to them as Murids, and they are murids. Not forgetting Imams Farmans and the definition of a murid. So what is so wrong in one murid or murids helping another murid or murids ?
@bloglaw: regarding meritocracy versus money
Bravo!
One of like yourself is enough to fight the herd of extremists on the Vancouverite I think you are one of the 313 momins needed for "zahurat" of Imame zaman. It is going to be a great struggle but in the end, it will all be worth it. Hosni Mubarak of our community is SS. He has to go one day. The intellectuals will do this work for Mawla. Knowledge societies have to evolve.
Mawla on "White horse" was witnessed by millions in Taqir square in Egypt during Egypt's struggle for liberty.(Site of glorious Fatimid period of our Imams)(video on U tube). The same Hazrat Ali on horse was seen by plenty of Non Ismaili villagers(In a village of Gujarat) during Diamond Jubilee of Imam Sultan Mohammad shah! (1945). When villageful of murids had traveled to Bombay for the jubilee. He was guarding their houses, animals, and businesses.
Many Ismailis near Darkhana JK in Mumbai saw the same Ali on "white horse" during riots in Mumbai in mid 1950s.
Thousands of Ismailis lived in that vicinity during that time. The same Ali will let this case progress to save the faith of millions of Ismailis being hijacked by a few powerful leaders.
My late mom who was fortunate to live during Diamond jubilee of ISMS told the story of Ali on “White horse” to me.
I am sure some of the senior Vaezeens will confirm the story.
@Alibhai Jiwani re: above post of Feb. 17 regarding meritocracy
786
Indeed, that story of M.S.M.S. mounted on a horse and guarding the murids' properties while they had gone for deedar is recorded in a Gujarati book. He even saved the life of a Hindu little boy who had fallen in a well...
Ya Aly madad.
Avalanche of Motions from Gray seeks to prolong lawsuit
Several Motions seems to be in the pipeline from SS through Gray. There is or will be motions to dismiss the Appeal, Motions to seek an Order according to Justice Harrington's Judgment, Motions for damages and loss of profit, more discoveries, more motions etc... More to come soon here.
These are desperate moves to distract the public from the fact that neither SS nor MM agreed to a Consent Judgment in the terms ordered by the Imam in October 2010.
Delays tactics from SS were expected as the Appeal from Defendant is strongly rooted in law.
From Docket: 2011-02-14
From Docket:
2011-02-14 Toronto Notice of motion contained within a Motion Record on behalf of the appellant an order dismissing the appeal; costs in writing filed on 14-FEB-2011
Comment:
The reasoning behind this notice, according to Gray, is that the appeal is premature and should have been done later after the order is issued.
Every powerful leader has to go one day! @ Alibhai Jiwani
Very well said, totally right!!!
Money makes the world go round?
Editor of Vancouverite says “Money out of the pocket hurts more than religion being snatched from your heart – the pain is not over yet and the costs will keep mounting with a response to the appeal to be filed by the plaintiff and the internal hearings that will follow. It isn’t over until the fat man sings!”
BLOGLAW : You may have hit the nail on the head. Many are motivated and driven totally by money and materialism in the way they think and act regarding needs and desires for themselves, their families and others. For them religion can also be for social events and conveniences or a fallback at times of trials, tribulation and other challenges in life. Imam has given guidance on this and on how and what we needs to consider or do. Not to say that money or lack of it should not be one of the considerations.
I do not feel that this is the case for these 2 murids. We now have 2 cases in the court of appeal which will now have to be considered individually and separately.
appealing ground - Canada
http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/RespondingtoanAppeal.pdf
An appeal differs significantly from a trial and is not a rehearing of a case. There are no witnesses or juries. In an appeal, the person whose case was not successful in the lower court argues that the trial judge made a mistake; for example, the judge may have applied the wrong law to the facts of the case. The appellant to the Court of Appeal must identify the mistake he or she believes the judge made.
The appeal court does not change the trial judge’s decision just because the Court of Appeal judges disagree with it. The lower court is entitled to hear the evidence and come to its own decision.
The appeal court may only change that decision if the lower court made a mistake as to the law or significantly misunderstood the evidence. It is important to note that not all errors in law will affect or change the outcome of a case on appeal.
******************
Could please state in elevator speech what is your appeal about?
Errors @sadrudin
You wrote:
It is important to note that not all errors in law will affect or change the outcome of a case on appeal.....
Please read our appeal notices for more info re: errors.
There are differences between appealing decisions made by trial judges, or appealing decisions made by interlocutory motions judges, for summary motion decisions etc. One size does not fit all, as well errors of law are treated differently than errors or fact, or errors of mixed fact and law etc etc.
Furthermore, it is very difficult, if not impossible, for anyone to give a reasoned opinion of chances of an appeal unless one understands all of the underlying facts, and knows the applicable law to the situation. Otherwise it is like flipping coins.
What is the Appeal about
@ Sadrudin
You missed the messages below so here again is the link to the texts of the Appeal and what it is all about.
http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/30541
no words
I am speechless, what a courage from the defendants, you are the fidais. We continue to pray for you, for your families, for John Doe. Je pense qu'on ne peut pas imaginer tout ce que vous devez subir et le courage qu'il vous a fallu pour entreprendre cette démarche.
Docket: New Case Number for Appeal
The Docket number for the Appeals are different from the number assigned at the Federal Court.
Now Nagib's file is Court File No. A-59-11, and Alnaz's file is Court File No. A-60-11.
The links are as follow for the respective Dockets:
http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_RE_info_e.php?...
http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_RE_info_e.php?...
Dignified Consent Judgment refused to Defendants - Appeal filed!
Read about recent Filings here:
Dignified Consent Judgment refused to Defendants - Appeal filed! - Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit -2011-02-08
What Happened Leading up to the Appeal?
What Points does the Appeal rely on?
Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!
Appeal
I have just being following this case in the recent while. Can we all just be brothers and sisters, have a big heart and think about our beloved Imam. He is spending countless hours for the betterment of the jamat. There are so many big issues for us to solve so let us devote our time and energy to these. I am sure he is not very happy about all this public fighting amongst ourselves. We just all need to move forward and forgive and forget all these issues. Please Please I am praying that all of us can come together as one happy community.
Everyone agrees with you
Everyone agrees with you and your wish and prayers. May they be granted. Ameen.
Despite repeated Farmans and guidance by Hazar Imam, Unfortunately some brothers & sisters refuse to share or have meetings or discussions with their brothers and sisters and also for their families and local mukhis Kamadias etc to be included and involved Until then, to forgive and forget and to move on together as one happy family does not seem possible.
I also hope and pray that there will be meetings and discussions soon and the lawsuit ended.
Appeal Papers
Is appeal papers available to public for reading. I also like to know how long appeal process will end from start to finish. Thank you in advance for more information.