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Defenses Glorifying the Aga Khan filed in federal Court - 2010-04-29

Date: 
Thursday, 2010, April 29
Location: 
Source: 
Heritage News
20100429-court-filings.jpg

In a surprisingly rapid twist of events, both Mr Tajdin and Mr Jiwa have filed their respective statements of Defense this 29th of April 2010. They affirm to being devoted followers who will unconditionally abide by the wishes of the Aga Khan, whom they glorify in their defense.

Mr Tajdin declares that:

He has not been served yet but the ethics imposed upon him by his faith demands that he should not keep in ignorance the public by being silent on the issue and should clarify all of the facts, pertaining to this lawsuit, of which he is aware.

He reaffirms his allegiance to the Aga Khan, is willing to submit to any of his wishes, and is ready to surrender himself and all his possessions to the Imam.

He has been printing Farman books since 1992 with approval and instructions from the Imam received on August 15, 1992 in Montreal.

He has not received any communication from the Imam from 1992 to 2009 instructing him to stop publication.

He cannot stop publication without instruction from the Imam as this would be a breach of his oath of allegiance to the Imam.

All Farman publications were financial deficit projects done as a volunteer service and large numbers of books were distributed free of charge.

Farman sharing is a historic Ismaili tradition which still continues today.

The current Ismaili Constitution does not restrict the right to publish Farmans

Mr Tajdin concludes that:

He has no choice but to await further direct instructions from the Imam.

He reaffirms his allegiance to the Aga Khan, is willing to submit to any of His wishes, and is ready to surrender himself and all his possessions to the Imam.

Mr Jiwa states that:

"This action does not appear to have been authorized personally by the Aga Khan .."

"In distributing Farman books obtained from Tajdin to other Ismailis, he has not violated either the Ismaili Constitution or any Farmans"

He has not violated the copyright act as "Tajdin was given express authority by the Imam" and regardless of the fact that "the limitations period provided for by the Copyright Act also bars this action as the books containing the Farmans were commenced publication in the year 1992", he will still do whatever the Imam tells him to do.

Mr Jiwa clarifies finances:

He "obtains these books for C$50.00 from Tajdin and sells it for C$50.00, without any profit.

"All monies received by him from the sale of (other) books after 2005 were delivered to the Jamatkhanas"

Mr Jiwa further states that:

"If the Imam edited the Farman before releasing to the Jamats, in effect he is superceding the Farman he made orally previously."

He "unconditionally reconfirms his oath of allegiance to his Imam" and "if the Imam does not desire his Farman books to be distributed to the Jamats (...) this defendant will submit to the instructions of His Imam without reservation whatsoever"

Replies From the Plaintiff are due within 10 days, and Affidavits of Documents are due 30 days later.

[Update from May 6: Ogilvy Renault, the law firm which launched the case has asked for an extension of 15 days to reply to the Defense. They claim delays due to breakdown of email servers, blackberry communication, travel of senior lawyer, time difference with Paris etc...The more delays in this file, the more damage it creates to the reputation of the Ismaili community, the Imam and the defendants. It is to the advantage of all parties that this case be withdrawn from the courts.]

[Update from June 22: Defendants have filed a Motion for summary Judgement to have the case dismissed.]

[Update from September 5:
Online Book that gathers court materials as well as articles that are currently available for the ongoing 2010 Lawsuit:

Copyright Lawsuit 2010: Online Book of All available Materials
News on cross-examinations:
Copyright Lawsuit: CROSS_EXAMINATIONS Table of Contents - 2010-09-04
Latest Development
Copyright Lawsuit: Imam Appears for Discovery and Ends the Case - 2010-10-15
As users are asking to read the letters from Nagib and Alnaz on the court docket, the latest have been attached on the following link:
A. Various Court Filings

Revised Factums have been posted Here:
2010-11-29 Summary Judgment : Plaintiffs Revised Combined Factums of Reply and of Motion
2010-11-29 Summary Judgment: Defendants' Revised Factums of Motion and of Reply

There has been proven fraud in the recent past in the Aga Khan's domain by the Aga Khan's agents:
Aga Khan Lawsuit: Fraud at Aga Khan Studs - 2000-02-22

2011-05-25: A Jamati Member who has never met the Defendants volunteered as his brotherly duty to pay the $30,000 that was demanded in the Plaintiff''s submissions and that was accordingly ordered by the judge.
Read the full details of the $30,000 payment directly to H.H. The Aga Khan.

2011-06-16: The Appeal Memorandum of Fact and Law against the Summary Judgment has been filed in court by the defendants on June 16th, 2011.
Read the Full Appeal Memorandum of Fact and Law

Link to Court Docket Case T-514-10
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-60-11
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-59-11
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-156-13

Latest News Comments

AttachmentSize
Tajdin Defence Apr 29.10.pdf491.02 KB
Jiwa AK Defence Apr 29.10.pdf543.82 KB

Comments

POOR YOUTH ELDERLY ...

President of Canada shared the following guidance - Farmans from Hazar Imam with the Janat as a part of the vision for the next 10-15 years.

" The jamat and community must learn to build an ethos of working for their collective needs in a cooperative way by building jamati institutions and capacity, AND not waiting for Councils and ITREB to come up with 'programs' to meet community needs. Groups (can be professional or just those with common skills or interests) can become proactive to form committees to meet needs that they see existing in the jamat to address issues of the poor Murids who are reluctant to reveal their predicaments AND ARE marginalised, youth marginalization, elder care, immigrant needs etc. on a volunteer basis. .."

We have not heard about from our Leaders or from Focus or AKDN ?Regarding the Golden Jubilee Goal for the poor and the vulnerable. What have they done in last 5 years !

Is Hazar Imam saying that the Jamat has to work together between themselves and share between themselves and not wait for the councils and AKDN or the councils ?

Do not the Keaders not realise what Hazar Imam is saying and when Predident of Canada is sharing this does he not realise what Imam is really telling the Leaders. They need to reflect on what Imam means and do they not sit with our Scholars and interpret the guidance & Farmans of Hazar Imam

Multi position

The many positions of Rai Al Waez Shiraz Kabani today.
1 Al Waez – Scholar (His training and qualification is not on his profile)
2 Vice President UK
3 Secretary to the Board of IIS
4 IIS – Full time paid employment with a significant budget
a. Head of Dept of Community relations
i. Education programmes and international training programmes – for Leaders and Mukhis and Kamadias and waezeens
ii. STEP – Secondary teachers Program
iii. Human resourse development
iv. Allumni relations
v. He is effective (defacto) – Co Director with Shafik (DJI) at IIS
“This department includes the portfolios of Community Education Programmes, International Training Programmes, STEP Deployment in the Field, Alumni Relations, Project Tajikistan, Country Strategies to Enhance ITREBs, and HRD Programme for Central Asia. He also serves as acting head of the Department of Communications and Development, overseeing resource development, communications, and the IIS website.”
b. IIS Website and communications and
c. effective Co directors COO of IIS
5 Director of 2 of the Jamats constitutional Charities
6 Chairman Ismaili Centre management Board
7 Chair Ismaili Centre & Jamat Khannas Management Executive
8 Council Member responsible and so heading Ismaili Centre services committee (coordinates and provides hospitality)
9 Council Member responsible for “Coffee with Chaiwalas” (Communication and dialogue with the Jamat)
10 Council member responsible for IT infrastructure for Ismaili Centre and institutions

With so many positions, can anyone do justice to the multiple responsibilities and the mandates, let alone do so optimally, efficiently and competently. Equally important, are there no other Ismailis from the 15 million who are equally and better qualified to handle some of these positions which Shiraz obviously cannot and frankly not even interested in. IIS does not have an operational full time Co Director. In last 8 years Professor Karim came for 2 years and left. Shiraz with Shafik and their inner circle are the de facto heads of IIS. It is clear that is the way they want IIS to be, so that they can operationally control with absolute authority.

Should he not resign from at least 5 of the positions or be replaced. ? Similarly Shafik Sachdina and their buddies. !

IIS, Sachedina and Kheraj

Mr Naguib Kheraj - Vice Chairman of Barclays Bank (and was a Director and Member of the Group Executive Committee of Barclays PLC, including Group Finance Director)

Mr Naguib Kheraj is various positions in IIS and AKDN
He is also a member of the Board of Governors of The Institute of Ismaili Studies
A Director of Islamic Publications Limited with Shafik Sachedina and Z Meghji
He serves as a Member of the Board of Trustees of the Aga Khan University,
A Member of the Executive Committee of the Board of the University of Central Asia
Member of the Oversight Committee for the Aga Khan Museum
Chairman of the National Committee of the Aga Khan Foundation (UK) and
Chairman of the Endowment Committee of the Aga Khan Development Network.

The Law

In case NCAB and ICAB think they cannot be taken to the court ! Here is one path - "The right to fair trial is also safeguarded by Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights and this is part of English law by virtue of the Human Rights Act 1998. The European Court of Human Rights has insisted that States are under an obligation to ensure that standards concerning the right to a fair trial are met by religious courts".

It will happen, when ICAB is

It will happen, when ICAB is closing all doors (at least they think so) to Justice, is is bound to happen that they will be taken to task in various countries.

UK court makes a historic

UK court makes a historic ruling to allow couple to go before their religious courts ? Provided their rules is in line with the UK Law. That means NCAB can but also all their rulings can be challenged if not in line with UK Law - which means all? or most ?

"The judge ...decided it would be better for their dispute to be heard in a Beth Din because it would be in line with their beliefs - and with laws in England and Wales.

‘The parties’ devout beliefs had been respected,’ the judge said.

‘The outcome was in keeping with English law, whilst achieved by a process rooted in Jewish culture to which the families belong.’

AKDN - New multi position

DUSHANBE, January 31, 2013, Asia-Plus -- The Aga Khan Development Network (AKDN) has announced that Mr. Akbar Ali Pesnani presented his credentials as the newly-appointed AKDN Resident Representative for Tajikistan to Tajik Foreign Minister Hamrokhon Zarifi, on January 30, 2013. Mr. Pesnani replaces Mr. Munir Merali who completed his term on January 28, 2013 after seven years of service.

Mr. Pesnani has over 40 years of experience within the Network in various capacities

INCLUDING, HIS CURRENT ROLE AS CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD FOR THE FIRST MICROFINANCE BANK IN AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN AND THE AGA KHAN CULTURAL SERVICES IN PAKISTAN. HE IS ALSO THE DIRECTOR ON THE BOARDS OF THE JUBILEE INSURANCE CO., AND INDUSTRIAL PROMOTION SERVICES FOR PAKISTAN.

Previously, he has also chaired the Steering Committee for the development of the earthquake affected areas in Kashmir.
The Aga Khan Development Network serves as Tajikistan’s largest private employer, through a committed staff of 3500 in 8 agencies.

Hazrat Imam Ali says, "See

Hazrat Imam Ali says, "See that justice is done towards God and justice is done towards the people by yourself, your own family and those who are close to you among your subjects. For if you do not do so, you have worked wrong. And as for him who wrongs the servants of God, God is his adversary, not to speak of His servants.

God renders null and void the argument of whosoever contends with Him. Such a one will be God's enemy until he desists or repents."

"Let the dearest of your affairs be those which are the middlemost in rightfulness (this is because justice involves a fine balance - it is a weighing in the scales to determine the most appropriate action), most inclusive in justice, and most comprehensive in (establishing) the contentedness of the subjects.

For the discontent of the common people invalidates the contentedness of favorites, and the discontent of favorites is pardoned at (the achievement of) the contentedness of the masses.

Moreover, none of the subjects is more burdensome upon the ruler in ease and less of a help to him in trial than his favorites.

(None are) more disgusted by equity, more importunate in demands, less grateful upon bestowal, slower to pardon (the ruler upon his) withholding (favor) and more deficient in patience at the misfortunes of time than the favorites." (excerpted from Imam Ali's letter of advice ( Farman) to Malik al-Ashtar.

As true today and what Allah has ordained and Imams have explained.

Beware of wolves in sheeps

Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing - History is full of examples of those who have betrayed trust, who have been the closest and trusted confidantes. Hence Imam says those are the ones who do not like equity - fairness for the people, are arrogant-demanding, impatient, ungrateful, slower to forgive.

Hazar Imam has said we must read and understand our history, and learn from it,so that and do not make the same mistake and have a better tomorrow.. .

H H The Aga Khan, Hazar

H H The Aga Khan, Hazar Imam, said that the duty and a part of the Mandate of any Imam, be is Sunni or Shia is to serve the people. That is the nature of the Imamat. Where there are mixed communities, the Imams mandate is towards everyone in that area be they sunnis, shias, jews, christains hindus or sikhs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKa-UEszQYQ&feature=share&list=PLjEccGMGk...

Over 2 million have been displaced and suffering in Syria with over 60000 who have died.
These include sunnis, shias, druze, christains, aluwaites, kurds and some from other nationalities.

This is a major human tragedy with catastrophic consequances and suffering for many yearsto come if not a decade.

I hope this will be seenas another reason and opportunty to share and work together

Allah made us from one soul

Allah made us from one soul into tribes and individually unique and different to that we may know one another and Learn from each other. Allah made some strong and stronger and some weak and weaker, in knowledge, physically, emotionally and intellectually. That is so that the strong and stronger can help the weak and weaker. Not to fight and exploit them.

Imams are there to help and support and guide, not to fight confront and file lawsuits for sharing their guidance.

@ The leaders re: The special 7 day tasbih for the Syrian Jamat

786
Umed bhai, I know this message has nothing to do with the lawsuit, it is a message for the leaders, and as such I hope you can post it here.

What wonderful news that we shall pray together for the Jamat in Syria! Shukhar that this time, we did not have to beg Itreb to institute special prayers (many Jamati members had pleaded, in vain, with the Itreb of the province where I reside in Dec. 2011 to have a special prayer for the Syrian Jamat).

If any leader(s), Mukhi/Kamadya is/are reading this page, could I possibly ask if, this time, we can recite a venti Ginan verse before the upstanding tasbih, and if we can recite out loud the "Ya Aly tun rahem kar, ya Mowla tun fazal kar" that is normally recited silently in the giriyaazaari tasbih? It would make the special prayer way more meaningful and thus, more effective, if we say it out loud. In the 7 day tasbih that was recited in Canada for peace in all the troubled areas of the world right after Lailat ul-Qadr in August 2012, the one-line prayer was not "inserted" in the giriyaazaari tasbih, there was no Ginan verse, no tasbih recited out loud, and it felt very "empty", not "fulfilling" nor "satisfying" at all. Other countries had a Ginan verse and a mushkil aasaan tasbih recited out loud...
I hope you can take this request into consideration.

Ya Aly madad.

Niyat and hakikati Samaj -

Niyat and hakikati Samaj - "What you are is God's gift to you...What you become is your gift to God." -Unknown Hasan al- Basri (died 110 A.H.) said:

"Statements cannot be correct except with actions; Statements and actions cannot be correct except with an intention (Niyah)...(and it must be pure.).. and statements, actions and an intention cannot be correct except according to the Sunnah of Muhamad (saw)." ('Sharh Usool I'tiqaad Ahl-us-Sunnah'al-Laalkaee 2/57

May the present conflicts, disputes, lawsuits, and sufferings be replaced by peace unity and dialogue. Ameen

Shukhar Mowla!

786
Thank you for posting my comment, Umed bhai! And lo!! Tonight, they announced it was a satado that was going to be observed, with Gath Paat! Laakho Shukhar! I had asked for "water" and have been served "sharbat"!!

Ameen. At this time we need

Ameen. At this time we need to pray and work together as brothers, instead of being confrontational and having lawsuits, and marginalisation. What a member of the Jamat shared " during the difficult time the jamat was undergoing in Uganda, the whole Salimiah jamat sat and prayed both during day time and evening for the safe transition of the uprooted Ismailis and for their mushkil asaan. One elderly man started to sob hysterically upon hearing this good news. He took my hand in his stating that despite the language, ethnic and cultural differences between us, we Ismailis have the strongest unifying bond through Hazar Imam. Nothing else mattered ! .."

This is very touching and

This is very touching and praying and helping all those who are suffering is what we must all do.Amen

Dialogue

Hazar Imam prefers dialogue in his divorce case. The case is quashed and there will be a totally new trial if this is not settled privately and amicably. The court made a wrong ruling. "Mr Sarkozy took on case & E-mails suggest he played direct a role from October to December last year to reach settlement with Begum Inaara Aga Khan, but none was made... "The original appeal decision, made by a court in Amiens, had attributed all responsibility for the marriage breakdown to the Aga Khan, 76. But that settlement has now been thrown out by the Paris Cour de Cassation after the billionaire should not bear all responsibility for the split from the 49-year-old Begum, also known as Gabriele Thyssen. The couple, who have a 13-year-old son, Aly, are now expected to face a retrial in around a year's time in what has already been an eight-year legal battle fought in Switzerland, Britain and now France."
.

New Chapter..

Is this the the begining of a new chapter in our history ! A letter from a murid to ITREB UK.

"Thank you for sharing the meaning and significance of Niyat which is a critical part of our tariquah, practices, Farmans, and also the Quran. Thank you for adding to my knowledge, & understanding of our tariquah rites, ceremonies and Farmans.

We also discussed Mehmani, in the presence of Hazar Imam including the meaning & significance of acceptance, blessings, reward, wishes, niyat, murad, and Farmans , individually and collectively. Similarly in the presence of Mukhi and Kamadia Sahebs daily in Jamat Khanna, by divine authority from Hazar Imam (amr).

I agree Niyat is deeply rooted in our faith, and significant in Islam. Unfortunately, there are no books or articles by ITREB or IIS so far. I therefore request ITREB UK to arrange a Waez for the Jamat with sessions for Mukhis, Kamadias, Waezeens, & BUI Teachers. I will be happy to share my more detailed research and thoughts with Al Waez Ghulam Abbas.

I am also extremely grateful to Chair ITREB UK, President UK, Mukhi Saheb, and Kamadia Saheb of West London. I pray Mawka blesses them for enabling a new era in sharing, understanding and articulation of our Faith. I attach a farman which I sincerely believe is meant for you in creating & enabling a “deep knowledge and true understanding” of our rites ceremonies in the context of Farmans.

Kind regards and Ya Ali madad. I look forward to meeting you as discussed. Time flew by, and I did not realise we spent about 4 hours. Thank you."

Does this mean Farmans will

Does this mean Farmans will also be given and explained to the Jamat ?

@Integrity re: Jan. 26th- Does this ...

786
It would be wonderful if that happened, but I have the feeling it is too good to happen...Though I must say that, lately, in the Jamatkhana I attend, every 10 days or so we hear a Farman or parts of a Farman that I have never heard before...Maybe there is hope???

Cover up ?

Anyone covering up knows it is unethical and damaging to them and the community. In the case of the Lawsuit and ICAB. By definition, a cover-up is an attempt to conceal something illegal, immoral, or undesirable. In simple terms, it is a lie. And lies by any standard are wrong. But what makes cover-ups so bad is what they say about the character of the individual.

It is the difference between a first offender and a hardened, serial offender. Most people can forgive someone caught in a lie. But when someone tries to keep it going in a pathetic cycle of deception, it has gone too far. Cover-ups require devious planning, premeditation, denial, and complete disrespect.

Understand that all of our cover-ups attempted over the years are really no different in principle from the high-profile scandals in the news. Remember that it wasn't the stock trade that was Martha Stewart's undoing as much as the cover-up. In most political scandals, it's the perjury and obstruction of justice that lands the defendant in hot water. Again, the cover-up ends up causing more trouble that the initial incident.

The classic cover-up consists of three phases: 1. the initial incident; 2. diverting of responsibility through a lie; 3. a series of subsequent lies used for diversion, blame, and damage-control. The point that you should have learned as a child from the broken lamp was that you should NEVER let yourself go past the first phase. You should stop the cycle immediately by accepting responsibility and making the situation right.

But it's never that simple and we too often escalate to phase two and three without thinking. Why don't we learn our lesson?

I hope leaders involved will consider and choose truth and Farmans.

Cover up ?

I read your post interesting, also read the comments from UMED and INTEGRITY, so how can we rephrase this question and the situation, why am I saying this, a very short incident happened to me when I had a conversation with a priest long time ago.

We all know and have read and watched in the news about Roman Chatholic scandal, to be specific sexual abuse of children in the church and by the priests. here is the explaination I got from that priest:

"religion and faith are just beliefs, so whatever we are taught and told, we believe and follow it as religion, I am only going to talk about myself and I am NOBODY to judge anyone else, I am a Muslim Ismaili, My religion is Islam and my Tariquah is Ismailism. Now the priest tells me during the conversation, here are the words that he used, Things that are being marketed to us as SINS, are BEEN committed by our priests, what does that tells us,IS THERE SOMETHING THEY KNOW AND DO NOT TELL US.

Now, why does our leaders commit UNETHICAL deeds ( crimes) against humanity, who has given them the right to play with our beliefs, they have been chosen by MHI to serve the jamat not to become a DICTATOR or crush the ethical values we cherish, I want you all to ponder on this question? IS THERE SOMETHING THEY KNOW AND DO NOT TELL US???? why do they do or commit sins after sins so BOLDLY without the TAQWA (the fear and wrath of ALLAH) maybe they know there is no such thing, but keep marketing that notion. and please those spiritual sensitive I request you to read it and look the other way.

There is a big differencing between ASKING and DEMANDING, it is about time to dump the soft attitude and start DEMANDING.

YA ALI MADAD

The majority did not know.

The majority did not know. We have a culture not to share and we are accustomed not to ask let alone demand. If not for Nagib and Alnaz and the lawsuit we would not have known. We now know what Imam wishes and we can and must seek from Leaders, and more need to share with each other including farmans. The hoarding and blocking of infomation and knowledge enables absolute power and leads to tyranny camouflaged by humility and misinformation. There are many examples in history.

A Cover up can only be

A Cover up can only be sustainable in countries where the judiciary is irreversibly corrupt to the bone.

those who know

also because those who know do not speak up because of fear or favours !

Airline & AKFED

AKDN - AKFED is investing some 100 million Euros more, and taken 89% and will recapitalise Meridiana Airline. This is not the first time that Prince Aga Khan the Ismaili multimillionaire intervenes at the last minute for Meridiana Fly: Since 2006, has injected into the coffers of the company 366 million euros. Saturday, January 19, 2013
http://www.flyafrica.info/forums/showthread.php?54487-Italy%92s-Meridian...
http://www.lettera43.it/economia/aziende/i-lavoratori-di-meridiana-grazi...

GRB Assessment

What is the role of GRB in such investements and their assesments - The constitution says http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/29740#comment-16257

Imam's projects are long

Imam's projects are long term projects and do not require immediate profitability. The objectif is not profit, it is betterment of humanity

Imam's projects are long

UMED if you still have my posting regariding the corruption and mishandling of funds and resources of Aga Khan University in Karachi, please post it , I hope you will still have it in your archive, you never posted that one. thanks

ya ali madad

This is a public company in

This is a public company in Italy with some 1600 staff. And has been making losses for the last 5 years. AKDN and the Leaders should share this news and information of the benefits with all stakeholders on our official websites. !

AKDN

"I am proud of two things. The first is the creation, in a variety of countries, of institutions of the community which possess real autonomy, which do not depend on the intervention, nor the thinking, nor the support of the Imam.".

Ismailies and Civil Society

The top priority for AKDN is for there to be a benefit to the community and through them and their seva, to others "Why am I, as the Imam of the Ismaili Muslims, concerned with the development problems? .Islam is not passive. It does not admit that man’s spiritual needs should be isolated from his material daily activities. ..The object is not to achieve status, wealth, and power, but to contribute to society’s overall development. This implies a moral responsibility to help its weaker, less fortunate members. It is in this clear context that I must concern myself with the social and material well-being OF THE ISMAILIES AND THE SOCIETIES IN WHICH THEY LIVE and today that represents more than 25 countries."

diversity problems

the texas jamat demands more diversity on the national international boards councils.....why are ismaili projects teaming up with blackstone / blackrock...these are neoliberal investment firms not interested in development and non profit investment...i think ismailis are making the same mistake they did in the past with an imperialist mindset ....we cannot go along with Western norms of exploitative mining and resources extraction in Africa...we cannot work with neoliberal investment firms..we will lose our principles as muslims if we go along with neo imperialism in Africa.....Welcome to the Real World..and get rid of Bana Supremist leaders in council...

Bana supremacist .

Excellent and accurate terminology.
I agree all top positions in leadership are generally taken by Ismailis from East Africa and Canada

Whilst I agree we need

Whilst I agree we need leaders concerned to change or be changed and there needs to be mote transparence and diversity. I am not sure about your comments regarding the use of investment firms. neoliberalism means
political thinking that combines traditional liberal concerns for social justice with an emphasis on economic growth. By partnering with those firms in e.g Hydro energy or internet and mobile, how is that a mistake by AKDN ? Do you know something specific or referring to a specific investments ?

Whilst I agree we need

Bloglaw I think you did not get the point, she or he is especially refering to this: I am going to copy it here from that post:

" and get rid of Bana Supremist leaders in council..."

may I explain or you got it now.

I get it thanks

I get it thanks

difference

The President of US takes an oath to supprt and defend their constituion as do all Presidents. " "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. The constitution is of the peaople for the people and by the people.

Our constituion is for the Jamat, of the Jamat and by the Jamat because Hazar Imam said in 1986, that there was a consultation process of 3 years and then by consensus the constitution was ordained by Hazar Imam in 1986 and then changed in 1998. Hazar Imam also said on 13 Dec 2008, similarly for changes to be recomended by the Jamat including the Leaders (not only the Leaders without any consultation and consensus with the Jamats and their needs.

difference

Bloglaw I want to add one thing to your comment on US president, He was also awarded NOBLE PEACE PRIZE first year in office while at the same time fighting 2 declared war in Iraq and Afghanistan and 2 undeclared war in Pakistan and Yemen. HA HA.

The Nobel Committee said

The Nobel Committee said Obama won it for "his extraordinary "efforts" to strengthen international diplomacy and co-operation between peoples". If he violated their constitution he is accountable and will be held to account by the Judiciary ! I was listening to his speech today. In our case if Sachedina has disrespected our constitution and Farmans do you agree he must be held to account by our Judiciary !

The Nobel Committee said

Of course 100%, that is my cry in all my post, so far he is above the law. and my suggestions are always raped by few.

YA ALI MADAD

Forget about it, Judiciary

Forget about it, Judiciary is corrupt.

Forget about it, Judiciary

Wall sttreet screwed up the whole world's economy and also its own people, they should be arrest after arrest of this wall street people but not even a single executive went to jail, and yesterday Mr. Obama give them immunity from not even being prosecuted by any one. Bloglaw dont you think our leaders are not watching the news, and dont you think, they will and are playing the same game.

You mean His Highness the

You mean His Highness the Aga Khan Shia Imami Ismaili Conciliation and Arbitration Boards ! Because of the unjust rulings and refusing to even give the rules and the constitution to those who seek conciliation and justice from them

Did the ICAB have any

Did the ICAB have any hearing for the last few cases we heard? Did they give orders without listening to the complainant?

MR N Nanji and ICAB need to

MR N Nanji and ICAB need to read this again " “..the NEW Constitution provides that EVERY Murid has the same relationship to the Imam of the Time in the ADMINISTRATION of the Jamati matters, and that is, I think, a VERY IMPORTANT STEP. ... It makes it possible for the JAMAT TO HAVE new organizations that will address the JAMATS NEEDS and it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that this NEW Constitution and the bodies under it function in the INTEREST and the BENEFIT OF THE JAMAT. Remember therefore, that not only is it your responsibility to make it function, it is your responsibility TO MAKE IT SERVE THE JAMAT…"

Mr Noordin Nanji Chairman of

Mr Noordin Nanji Chairman of ICAB and those who voted (if they voted),must resign ! How on earth a lawyer who receives a complaint by one Ismaili against another Ismaili say they have no authority because one of the Ismaili happend to be a top , Leaders and who controls the budgets and the appointments ! And add insult to injury not hear the case and refuse to even give their rules and the regulations or a full set of the constitution ?

Mr N Nanji knows remaining in his position as Chairman is untenebale, and he is damaging to the Image of the community and of ICAB.

What Mohammed Keshavjee says

What Mohammed Keshavjee says is not what he does or trains NCAB to do ?
"The role of the Imam is central to Ismailism. It is through the guidance of the Imam that a true understanding of Islam can be obtained; however, such a view does not ignore the believer’s ability to use a rational, reason or intellectual faculty. In fact, true understanding came to be defined as the ultimate unfolding of human reason (aql) to its fullest potential under the guidance of the Imam. Working out this process provides the key to understanding the heart of Ismaili spirituality.

“Spiritual allegiance to the Imam of the time and adherence to the Shi'a Imami Ismaili persuasion of Islam, according to the guidance of the Imam, have engendered in the Ismaili Community an ethos of unity, self reliance and a common identity”.

Mohamed Keshavjee, “Reflective Learnings From The Training Programmes Of The Ismaili Muslim Conciliation And Arbitration Boards, Globally,” in the 5th International Conference of the World Mediation Forum, 8 September, 2008, Crans-Montana, Switzerland."

Itrebs DJI IIS

Manadate of ITREB taken over and transfered ? What Hazar Imam says in the constitution!

Tariqah and Religious Education Board .. is for the provision of religious education at all levels of the jamat, for the training of religion teachers and waezeen, FOR RESEARCH AND PUBLICATION and for the performance of such functions in relation to the Ismaili TARIQUAH... .
Each Tariqah Religious Education Board shall
(a) implement a comprehensive programme and curriculum of religious education at all levels within the Shia Imami Ismaili Tariqah of Islam; (TRANSEFERED TO DJI-IIS)
(b) implement programmes for the training and upgrading of waezeen and religion teachers; TRANSFERED TO IIS - DJI
(c) engage in or support researh in the relevant aspects of Islam and the Ismaili Tariqah; NONE DONE BY ITREBS - DJI-IIS
(d) undertake publication of book and materials on relevant aspects of Islam and the Ismaili Tariqah; NO BOOKS PUBLISHED BY ITREBS (OR DJI_IIS)
(e) be a point of reference and consultation for Mukhis and Kamadias in matters of religious rites or practices of the Ismaili Tariqah; ITREBS AND WAEZEENS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO GIVE, COPY OR EVEN EXPLAIN FARMANS OR THE FULL CONSTITUTION
(g) work in close collaboration with other Tariqah and Religious Education Boards in different regions of the world. TRANSFERED TO IIS

IIS do not provide the above in their open library to even scholars, or publish books on our Tariquah including Farmans, Ginans, and constitution. Or by Ismaili authors despite Farmans from Hazar Imam.

Accountability and Transparency

GRB are mandated to audit and ensure complaince and accountability to the Counicls and the Jamat on ALL institutions without limitation. Instead they only control the national Jamati budgets, and report to DJI and the same SS group. What about AKDN and $12 billion ?

Constitution - " There shall be a Grants and Review Board for each of the territories specified in Part I of the Fifth Schedule to be known as "His Highness Prince Aga Khan Shia Imami Ismaili Grants and Review Board" for the territory for which it is formed to ensure compliance with proper standards of financial discipline, accountability, and cost and management effectiveness by institutions which receive financial support from Mawlana Hazar Imam or the Jamat. "

Imam gives 100% of the funds all our ALL our institutions which includes AKDN !

M Keshavjee with S Sachedina

M Keshavjee with S Sachedina DJI. have controlled the appointments and training of ICAB and NCABS globally for over 18 Years, ITREBS globally for over 18 years, IIS for over 18 Years. Keshavjee gave instructions to block Farmans and to stop the teaching of our tariqiah, rites and ceremonies, and not to even explain them to the Janats, and changed Farmans. His misleading letter with the ITREB regulations have been filed in the lawsuit against Nagib and Alnaz. He has blocked the constitution and also the rules of ICAB and NCABS from the Jamats

Does GRB conduct an annual

Does GRB conduct an annual review of the budgets and training of NCAB and ICAB with an evalaultion to ensure accoutability and that the budgets are within and meet ther mandate in the national and global end of term reports and vision. Are therse reports shared with the Jamat?

Does GRB conduct an annual

My request to GRB (if this is not a corrupt institution like others) is to check the expense reports either it is JK renovations or any other institutions projects, and see how money is being wasted by those unqualified personal who heads our institutions or project managers. A penny saved is penny earned.

Farmans & Translations

Hazar Imam says farmans must be given with translations and we must make translations and share them.
“..I am aware that it is difficult for any Murid to listen to the Farman of the Imam and to make immediately afterward a perfect translation. I am aware of the difficulty. But it is important nonetheless for the translation to be made to the Jamat even though the translation may not be as good as it would be if one had days to improve and correct the translation. But the translation will be made available to the Jamat and Inshallah it would be a good translation..” Karachi 2000 (Hazar Imam is confirming the Jamat must be given the Farmans with Translations, even if the translation is not good)

Imam is telling S Sachedina A Bhaloo M Manji & M Keshavjee to give Farmans and tranlations to the Jamat, but what they are telling the leaders and the Jamat is not what Imam is telling them.Imam reminded the Jamat and Leaders in London GJ Farman. They deleted that sentence !

So if I translate Nagibs book in another language, and share it, will another lawsuit be filed against me ? The constitution is a farman. It is not available to all the jamat nor a translation in other languages.

Farmans & Translations

Today we have technologies that can take care of the translation, you can get the basic translation through GOOGLE translate in many language. The only thing i dont understand is why not use the technologies available, the only time I saw the use was during GJ. The satelite system use for Homage ceremony.

A normal guy never went to Oxford or Harvard, if he can run a political party of more than 50 millions in Pakistan through technology sitting in London, we are only 15-20 millions professionals and highly educated individuals in every field still cannot print a book of firmans and constitution, isn't it a shame. The time money and resources that was wasted in the copyright lawsuit (only damaged the faith) if used properly, just think where would we be.

YA ALI MADAD

The reason is not they can't

The reason is not they can't , they do not want to the reason for that is they don't want to answer or be accountable or transparent. The reason for that is to do what they want and not what Farmans say, or Imam. For example to end the lawsuit and give Farmans to the Jamat.

Dear LIF; Where is the book

Dear LIF; Where is the book of Farmans ? 10 Jan 2010 announcement to the jamat world wide " ..The Jamat will be pleased to be informed that Mawlana Hazar Imam has already approved that the Jamati institutions should formally publish a volume containing the approved texts of his Farmans, including those made for the Golden Jubilee. This will be made available to the Jamat in the near future.."

Dear Presidents and ITREBS, The Constitution says National Councils duty is to inform and keep the Jamat informed? and for ITREB to publish books of our Triquah which includes Farmans - not a single book has been published ?

"..This farman today looks

"..This farman today looks forward to more information being made available to the Jamat from different sources, different times, different languages, but nonetheless, all within the centrality of our tariqah. We have inherited a magnificent legacy, and this legacy is something to which we must give time, reflection, respect and continuity.." 2000 Hazar Imam.

Leaders and Jamat should send this to all Leaders and ask for all Farmans, constitution, and information in the languages spoken by your Jamats and in English.

Different sources

With regards to the "information" that Hazar Imam is talking about, do you feel that he is referring to Firmans? He is hoping for the Jamat to have information from *different* sources. As far as I know, Firmans are from only one source - MHI. Surely he must be meaning some other sort of information . Perhaps sources such as those for education? Caring for the Aged? Economic?

What is within the

What is within the centrality of our Tariquah. Information in Farmans as defined by Hazar Imam and includes all speeches and writings by Hazar Imam and earlier Imams.

Perhaps another source is

Perhaps another source is Nagib, this website, and Jamat. I appreciate Famans originate from one source , which also has information, but as you know over 40% are blocked and hidden by those who are told to tell the Jamat but they don't. Farmans also contain information. We can be confused or selective or limiting in our interpretations , but Imam says this is "without limitation " in s 5 of the constitution (which is a Farman), and contains information. Read with the preamble and over 30 Famans and referenced reasons quoted before, there is no confusion. In any event do you agree that information including all Farmans are not being given to the Jamats, and should be ?

Are you in any doubt that Hazar Imam wishes his children to get all the information he gives for them and also for them to share with their brothers and sisters ? what did Imam say in GJ London?

Dear LIF; Where is the book

ITREB, what is to be expected by thumb impressionists or in other words rubber stamps, we have a 20 - 25 minutes of dua, zikhr and ginan and firmans everyday in the evening, and guess what every imam who says our dua says his or her choice of words, not what MHI has given us. the ginans same thing, and the firman, if timeline wise if we start from our 48th Imam SMS to MHI, it will take years for a single firman to be a repeat, am I right? MHI ordered us to keep a balance with deen and duniya, but all we hear are firman re: economic issues mostly same firman every week almost, Now if we look at ITREB it has lost the balance MHI suggests, am I wrong.

Now lets look who runs ITREB not a single SCHOLAR, sorry to say they have NO knowledge of our Ismaili tariqah let alone our DIN-E-ISLAM, the core the foundation of our tariqah. They have never stopped a single person from saying words theat does not exist in either dua or ginan, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER AND THEY ARE POWERLESS, all they have is the might and EGO to do everything wrong , they are good at is prescribing headache medicine to stomach pain.

If an engineer or a businessmen becomes or made a surgeon , a good human being will end up like Frankenstein.

YA ALI MADAD

Just a clarification

As one of the readers on this site, I have seen some debates and differences in views. But this quote from you is a little disturbing "By jubilee time I arrange a cruise for the our elite leaders and capsize the ship in the middle of the ocean".
Without coming to conclusions, and wondering how something like this also got posted, I am wondering if you can clarify what is meant by that line.

I have erased it. Obviously

I have erased it. Obviously that is a joke in very bad taste and should have been caught before it was approved for posting, maybe the whole post was not read properly. Apologies to all.

We do recognize that we have outstanding people serving the community and mistakes are made by few of them, not the majority who is dedicated.

I have erased it. Obviously On January 19th, 2013 librarian-umed

Just a clarification
On January 19th, 2013 Dbk (not verified) says:
As one of the readers on this site, I have seen some debates and differences in views. But this quote from you is a little disturbing "By jubilee time I arrange a cruise for the our elite leaders and capsize the ship in the middle of the ocean".
Without coming to conclusions, and wondering how something like this also got posted, I am wondering if you can clarify what is meant by that line.

There is always someone in this forum who never learned to read the WHOLE CONTENT and visualise what is being said and what is being meant, but to pick tit bits out and blow it out of proportion and take it out of context. How do you treat cockroaches in you house, A ROYAL GUEST, you kill them right what ever means available. what part in that sentence you do not UNDERSTAND

Now UMED I thought you were little different , and "I have erased it. Obviously that is a joke in very bad taste and should have been caught before it was approved for posting, maybe the whole post was not read properly." exactly as per you, I would always recommend a little extra time to READ IT PROPERLY. I can understand you as a moderator have to keep everyone happy, that includes me this DBK, and everyone in here. But If you want to run your business fairly then you should let people speak their mind, NO CENSORSHIP. UMED, since my English is different and hard to understand for some, I would request you if need rephrasing pls do so but do not just cut it out.

Now here is my question: Is it ok for you guys to call these Individuals Mr S Kabani, E Rupani, S Sachedina, S Vellani M Keshavjee Z Meghi and N Kheraj and MR SS corrupt with proving them otherwise, but my one clear line comments needs an explanation. Come on guys grow up and if you are a very well seasoned grown up then sorry to say you have wasted your life and it is too bad you cannot start over again. GOOD LUCK.

AKDN, IIS, FOCUS, AKF THESE ARE ALL GOOD INSTITUTIONS, BUT OUR CORRUPT LEADERS USE THEM AS RUGS. the dirt from one is swept under another and vice versa.

YA ALI MADAD

Not all leaders are corrupt,

Not all leaders are corrupt, some are mistaken and some believe whatever SS tells them.

Not all leaders are corrupt,

But we never talk about them, or, even give them credit for their dedications, that is maybe the reason/s behind all the negativity in this forum.

We are not being negative in

We are not being negative in sharing knowledge and information which is what Imam wishes. We are being realists and truthfully. Remember we have not had this kind of a forum ever before. We are being positive by saying yes to sharing the truth and Farmans.

ITREBS, IIS and AKDN

ITREBS, IIS and AKDN are run by the same small group of Leaders.

It is not that there are not good Ismaili scholars and talented Ismaili professionals. They are being excluded as a strategy of this inner group. For Example IIS is run by the same group and they don't even want to replace an Ismaili Scholar to head it - reason they can't find a top Ismaili Scholar who is a yes man or woman ! So Mr S Kabani, E Rupani, S Sachedina, S Vellani M Keshavjee Z Meghi and N Kheraj are effectively running IIS & with multi roles and positions and budgets.

Meghji was UK President When Imam said leaders are not telling the Jamat what Imam is telling them to tell the Jamat. He is a buddy of Sachedina like Azim Lakhani and in the same type of business.

All Presidents and Jamat need to read S 5 of constitution and share information and reports "(h) MAKE AVAILABLE TO THE JAMAT and the public at large, information relating to the role and CONTRIBUTION of the institutions of the Imamat and the jamat towards "
What we need is the Jamat to wake up and those who are working in our institution to share.

.

AKDN and the 4 criteria -

AKDN and the 4 criteria - walking the talk ?
Even though AKDN has its raison d’être in countries with Ismaili Muslim communities, ...... the themes that immerse the Aga Khan’s public speeches, four basic criteria must be met:
Democratic Governance – “Breadth and depth of understanding of the culture of democracy, both in theory and in application.” Democracy implies meritocracy, a crucial component of any development strategy. Education is also a central pillar in the edifice of democratic governance, and so a special emphasis is placed on educating populations in undemocratic countries on the institutions and processes of constitutional democracy.
Pluralism – “The recognition that people of diverse backgrounds and interest, organizations and projects of different types, and different kinds and forms of creative expression are all valuable and therefore deserving of recognition and support by government and society as a whole.” This does not occur naturally in human society, in the Aga Khan’s experience, but
Civil Society – “An array of institutions that operate on a private, voluntary basis but are driven by public motivations.” A healthy civil society is what keeps societies strong when governments fail. It provides citizens with rights and duties, collective security, equity and equality and access to opportunity.
Ethical Commitment – “An ethical sensibility that can be shared across denominational lines and can foster a universal moral outlook.” A deepening sense of spiritual commitment and the ethical framework that goes with it can guide greater intercultural exchanges. The Aga Khan often repeats the real problem is a “clash of ignorance” that can be remedied through transcultural education.

Governance &

Governance & Constitution?;

(g) SERVE THE NEEDS OF THE JAMAT, to enable it to make an effective contribution to the development of the societies in which it lives;
(h) MAKE AVAILABLE TO THE JAMAT and the public at large, information relating to the role and CONTRIBUTION of the institutions of the Imamat and the jamat towards development in various regions of the world;
(i) STRENGHETN THE JAMAT and its institutions;

THE JAMAT as a whole is the priority and comes first !
THE CONTRIBUTION mean to give all the reports of every country !
The National Councils and AKDN need to share and are accountable to the jamat

Mali is in the news. AKDN

Mali is in the news. AKDN have investments there in Mali Airways, and Energy and Manufaturing. employing about 2000 staff. How many Ismailis are there in Mali and how many have benefited in Mali in last 7 years ?

Mali is an example of place

Mali is an example of place where there are no Ismailis or very few Ismailis but the Imam has intervened massively to stabilize the region, to save the manuscripts, the historical places and for the betterment of the economy.

Mali shows that Hazar Imam is the Imam of all mankind, no only of few ones... As Hazar Imam has said, are we going to work for one segment of the population or for humanity? The Imam has made the choice to work for the Humanity.

Hazar Imam has mandated AKDN

Hazar Imam has mandated AKDN to invest and create countries of opportinuties for the Jamat. And also for the benefit of all in those areas. Not to the exclusion of Ismailies. These opportunities are not being given on even a 50/50 basis to Ismailies nor on merit to Ismailies..

Mali is an example of place

Umed you wrote:

" Mali shows that Hazar Imam is the Imam of all mankind, no only of few ones... As Hazar Imam has said, are we going to work for one segment of the population or for humanity? The Imam has made the choice to work for the Humanity."

Allow me to share a very recent story about the mentality of our brothers and sisters, if you guys remember few years back there was this massive flood in Pakistan, the biggest in the history , No effort was initiated by our leaders and our community to help the needy, I joined a group in Atlanta to collect donations, clothings etc. One Ismaili warehouse owner offered his warehouse for staging and repacking and shipping. One friend of mine an Ismaili offered he will arrange the logistics and contacted the head of the seniors, and every thing was set to start at a certain date.

I opened the warehouse that day and waitied and waited no one showed up, in the end I had to shut down the warehouse after few hours of waiting. This event was organised by the workers of a big political party in Pakistan (non ismailies). When contacted with the head of seniors, the reason that was given for not showing up was they thought this event was organised by our community but since they are not ismailies, we will not participate. The seniors did show the next day after convincing their leaders,

SEVA means, SPIRITUAL ACTIVISION for the betterment of MANKIND and Humanity, you are 100% right UMED but who is going to flip the narrow mindedness of our leaders, every chandraat they read an article about the work of Imamat in different countries, helping humanity , Mawla does not look at race and religion or ethnicity before he extend his resources, he is an IMAM for the mankind that includes Muslims, hindues, christian and every single human being on this planet, It is upto the people to accept and treat him like one, and that does not stop him from serving humanity,but somehow people do not get it. They have been taught that seva means only to work in JK as volunteers, We have to change this mindset. Sorry to say but the AL-WAEZIN are not even doing the job, so who is the culprit again finger points to ITREB. I think you guys get the point.

YA ALI MADAD.

Just a thought

Here today we have seen so many authors who post their opinions here, some are very very good some are very informative and some very educative and sorry to say some are just plain *** or civilizly speaking off the topics. Well what can we do freedom of speech. What did MHI answered when asked about the cartoon of prophet Mohammed (SAW) you know that. But still here his own followers who claim themselves MURID expresses and abuses the right of free speech . So sad.

Well here is a suggestion, we will never be able to achieve what we want from our leaders on our own, writing individually no transparency no accountability no responsibility you name it. This forum here exist but not a single response from the leaders, they all visit this site, they all know what is going on and what we are discussing, if they don't pay attention they do have agents out there and in here who may not only be forwarding stuffs to them but also but also disrupt a good debate by posting flammable materials and takes the whole debate in a different direction. We have all seen that happen, So what do we do????? here is a simple thought, we have everything in place the whole infrastructure i.e this forum. Now all we need to do advertise the existence to the rest of the jamat , we will here create a group of directors to whom the concern is express privately and then it can be discuss among the directors and if need perused a letter would be sent to the accused, as us being a body not an individual and response is required in due period, if the body we will make, thinks, the complaints are legitimate, it will be published on the website and a demand for response from the defendants. either be an individual or an institution.

What I am suggesting is according to the constitution , the institution are accountable to the Jamat .we will appoint chairman and directors, it will be a collective group one goes down everyone goes down type. we can only win as one voice that is exactly what they do, if they get scared and they do things like they did in copyright case make announcements in the jk and every leader/s involved speaks the same language, but if the complaint is on the web then the jamat will also have a chance to see every details on the web and then make their own decisions.

what do you guys thinks, workable.

YA ALI MADAD

Leadership is not about

Leadership is not about being one with each other, and being against the Jamat. Good Leadership about is being one with the Jamat. By being one, against selected members of the Jamat, "leaders concerned" are not being one with Farmans or therefore one with Hazar Imam. The Jamat need to have a platform to give feedback and speak up in the present system where questions and feed back are discouraged and used to margnalise.

W e must individually and

W e must individually and collectively seek accountability and share feedback and information with the Jamat and Leaders.

Since April 2010, there are many who are sharing including the complaints and cases this forum too. Leaders in question are being named on specific and reasoned issues. Hazar Imam encourages the Jamat to get together and do what Leaders are not doing or cannot do. This is also according to farmans, speeches and the constitution.There are some initiatives by members of the Jamat, like, this website, and Imam gave permission for speeches and writing to be published by nano wisdoms and the ginan associaton to name a few. There is also a new Jamat to jamat initiavive by some murids.

I thnk it may be better for your idea, If this website's editorial team were to appoint one or more coordinators/team, who are willing to use their name, and will send letters to our Leaders and our institutions. They will find many today who will. One year ago maybe not.

Ismaili.net has been approved bearing in mind what Imam said on 15th Oct 2010. Leaders are not responding and think that the Jamat will not unite, share or have the resources if necessary take them to the courts under the constitution. Any muirds who are identified are marginalised. That is the reason they are continuing the lawsuit against Nagib and Alnaz.

Anyone who thinks and asks the follwoing will know and support the ending of all legal cases.
1 What is the benefit to the Jamat or the Imam in getting the names of those who Nagib and Alnaz gave the books to whaen Imam and the court have allowed them to keep the book. On the other hand - NONE
2 what is the benfit to the community and Imam in ending the case and resolving matters internally.? - EVERY BENEFIT

So I agree your suggestion is workable and necessary in the best interests of the Jamats.

Everything is on the web

Everything is on the web because the Leaders are not doing what Imam wishes. So a team of murids who have the knowledge and ability is a workable.

No more personal exchanges

personal exchanges of the type "you said, I said" and offensive posts will not be posted from now on. I am sorry to notice that the last dozen post do not contribute in any way to any civilised debate or issue. Rules will be enforced strictly from now on.

And people posting as a new subject instead of responding to the corresponding post will be censured, that is not the right way to post.

have you noticed

Every author in this forum and at the end of their post there are 2 buttons REPLY and COUNTRY, but I have noticed that one of the author in this forum has no country identification, here I post a sample:

See the top post and all his posts go check have the country missing and look at the bottom one it says the country.
I was wondering how is this a glitch or (may Mawla forgive my soul for suggesting this) may be undercover informant of SS. INC. oh my god it is giving me a chill LOL

This is normal. it does not

This is normal. it does not look like you are familiar with reverse lookup of IPs. Sometime the source of the posting is identified and shown, sometimes the server can not identify the geographical location, mostly when people post though a satellite link or from a mobile phone or dynamic IPs or even some of the servers that make sure to hide your IP [used by people who do not want to be traced easily].

No more personal exchanges

You take your grievances to the heirarchy of leadership.........

They take it to someone above them and so forth.

The document all but gathers dust on the shelves.

You write directly to the Imam.

The Gatekeepers (and this is not meant to be Ninda of any kind, this is what they are)
keep them, hold on to them, and "Duniabaane" Mawla is kept in the dark.

What can one do at this stage???

Response to pakifellah to no ninda &yasmin

Speaking on my own behalf (I am sure sister Yasmin will give her own response too), I must ask you if you are really an Ismaili???
If you are then have you no shame? How can you compare seeking our Imams help in sorting out the problems in the leadership to a genie in a bottle? That is indeed low, lower than even those who are shariyati. One would expect in this forum to discuss issues with brothers and sisters who are well above the levels of shariyat and tarikat for it is they only who can get my point, having mutual understanding of the true identity of our Imam and the depth of our faith. You should not bother to read my comments, let alone respond. For you or people like you, Pir has given the warning: Eji Gurnarthi bhulla taasu vaad nakijie te to avarko jiv dolaveji....
Do not ever insult our Imam with your judgemental and thoughtless comments ever again!!!!

@ Ninda

Very very good I think you have weak veins or your veins are in vain. well lets see which nerve I hit bad or you are afraid to look in the MIRROR. lets start with one point at a time. you wrote:

Speaking on my own behalf (I am sure sister Yasmin will give her own response too), I must ask you if you are really an Ismaili???

Now please explain WHAT IS AN ISMAILI and why you consider youself as a better ismaili then ME? The only problem with people like you in our community is instead of accepting other people view, you guys think you are the best. and when confronted hide behind the veils of of cheap and lower then low life comments, like those gays and lesbians that justifies their act as born in the wrong body. Shame on you, the first criticism, and you are lost and then you have the guts to consider yourself ABOVE THE SHARIYAT AND THE TARIQAT.

I think you among those who have the illusion of being TARIQATI by being the members of tariquah board.

Now lets address your second lower then your lower mentality question, you wrote:

How can you compare seeking our Imams help in sorting out the problems in the leadership to a genie in a bottle?

If Imam wanted to solve this copyright problem and many other cases he could have done it in a very spiritual way, Not dragging it in courts.

When we give our BAYAH to the imam and renewed it again during Golden Jubilee homage ceremony, (I dont know about you NINDA) dont you think that the IMAM during the meeting with the defendants and the leaders could have put an end to all this nonsense period. Don't you believe in HIM being the MASTER of all the Judges in this world, do you think the defendants (his Murids) would have let him down. give me a break NINDA submerge in NINDA from head to toe still have the balls to call himself NO NINDA, You are nothing but like a little boy hiding behind the paalu of your moms saree. Grow up and address issues like a man and choose a better nick or you need my help to choose one, will be more then happy to help an astray _ _ _ _ you fill in the blank.

your third question or comments:

discuss issues with brothers and sisters who are well above the levels of shariyat and tarikat for it is they only who can get my point, having mutual understanding of the true identity of our Imam and the depth of our faith

This will be determine who is who above the levels , you talk and brag about. In our Holy Dua we are mandated to PROSTRATE OR SUJDAH 6 times X 3 duas = 18 Sujdahs (no hypocratic answers) , How many times did you or do you bow in SUBMISSION to ALLAH, I mean the real submission your head actually touching the ground. and the million dollar question who is it in your minds your thougths and your hearts when you perform your SUJDAH. Only you NINDA must answer my this question, NO ONE ELSE pls. I am not like NINDA going around asking people ARE YOU ISMAILI if you are then prove it. Ifyou go back down you will find one of my post about headaches to a comments from YASMIN I think, go and read it and go deep into that post to an esoteric level and think what I am trying to say, I dont think the way you think, Maybe you are sixty fifty or seventy years old or what ever level you think you are at , if you dont understand my questions right I think you have wasted your life living in illusions or simply state of denial.

and your last comment:

Do not ever insult our Imam with your judgemental and thoughtless comments ever again!!!!

I am not a JAMATI leader who is accountable to you, secondly using the word EVER AGAIN !!!! you cannot tell me or anyone else what to do. Maybe you have the complex of being above the levels but I have read your post/s you are nothing but a fanatic piece of (you know what) who is asking not to be treated like one.

MR MODERATOR I DID NOT START THIS SO YOU WILL BE KIND ENOUGH AND GIVE ME THE RIGHT TO A FAIR EXPRESSION AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. IF YOU EDIT A SINGLE WORD IT WILL TAKE MY POINTS IN A VERY DIFFERENT DIRECTION AND I AM KIND OF PERSON WHO SAYS "as is" WE ARE ALL GROWN UPS.

YA ALI MADAD.

@ pakifellah

Oh My God !!! I am shocked and speechless at your comment!!!!
Need I say anything more?????

@ to whom it may concern

I knew that would happen not just shocked, speechless but let me add RESTLESS, and what else can you say, you tried to show off, before you did that it could have been much beneficial for you to have read the entire post, try to absorb it and then shoot, you did not even read the word NO OFFENCE in big CAPS let me copy and paste if you missed it.

@ Ninda and @ Yasmin
On January 14th, 2013 Pakifellah (not verified) says:
The arguments on this forum from all the participants, you guys call it NINDA, as a matter of fact these are plea and concerns from true and dedicated ismailies, do you guys think that writing a letter to SS is the right thing to do, well you are right but you think that you 2 are only right people, do you guys believe that SS AND HIS TEAM not reading any of the stuff that is submitted here, this is a collective effort to bring the BS to an end and let me tell you it is a better and effective venue than your wishful approaches . I would like to welcome you to ground realities. NO OFFENCE.

YA ALI MADAD

Be the change you want to

Be the change you want to see - Gandhi if we want change we have yo change first .

Are you saying those who do

Are you saying those who do not agree with you are wrong and that you should not explain to those who do not have your level of understanding. Hazar Imam says you must share your knowledge and explain and explain again., & all murids are equal. I don't know what you are referring to specifically except you are being judgemental.

Are you saying those who do

Thank you.

Was not the offering of the book of Firmans in the Montreal Mehmani a direct presaentation to Mawla and was it not brushed away as something He cannot possibly remember?

Even after such actions, what is a "supposed" murid to do?

Again, thank you.

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