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Defenses Glorifying the Aga Khan filed in federal Court - 2010-04-29

Date: 
Thursday, 2010, April 29
Location: 
Source: 
Heritage News
20100429-court-filings.jpg

In a surprisingly rapid twist of events, both Mr Tajdin and Mr Jiwa have filed their respective statements of Defense this 29th of April 2010. They affirm to being devoted followers who will unconditionally abide by the wishes of the Aga Khan, whom they glorify in their defense.

Mr Tajdin declares that:

He has not been served yet but the ethics imposed upon him by his faith demands that he should not keep in ignorance the public by being silent on the issue and should clarify all of the facts, pertaining to this lawsuit, of which he is aware.

He reaffirms his allegiance to the Aga Khan, is willing to submit to any of his wishes, and is ready to surrender himself and all his possessions to the Imam.

He has been printing Farman books since 1992 with approval and instructions from the Imam received on August 15, 1992 in Montreal.

He has not received any communication from the Imam from 1992 to 2009 instructing him to stop publication.

He cannot stop publication without instruction from the Imam as this would be a breach of his oath of allegiance to the Imam.

All Farman publications were financial deficit projects done as a volunteer service and large numbers of books were distributed free of charge.

Farman sharing is a historic Ismaili tradition which still continues today.

The current Ismaili Constitution does not restrict the right to publish Farmans

Mr Tajdin concludes that:

He has no choice but to await further direct instructions from the Imam.

He reaffirms his allegiance to the Aga Khan, is willing to submit to any of His wishes, and is ready to surrender himself and all his possessions to the Imam.

Mr Jiwa states that:

"This action does not appear to have been authorized personally by the Aga Khan .."

"In distributing Farman books obtained from Tajdin to other Ismailis, he has not violated either the Ismaili Constitution or any Farmans"

He has not violated the copyright act as "Tajdin was given express authority by the Imam" and regardless of the fact that "the limitations period provided for by the Copyright Act also bars this action as the books containing the Farmans were commenced publication in the year 1992", he will still do whatever the Imam tells him to do.

Mr Jiwa clarifies finances:

He "obtains these books for C$50.00 from Tajdin and sells it for C$50.00, without any profit.

"All monies received by him from the sale of (other) books after 2005 were delivered to the Jamatkhanas"

Mr Jiwa further states that:

"If the Imam edited the Farman before releasing to the Jamats, in effect he is superceding the Farman he made orally previously."

He "unconditionally reconfirms his oath of allegiance to his Imam" and "if the Imam does not desire his Farman books to be distributed to the Jamats (...) this defendant will submit to the instructions of His Imam without reservation whatsoever"

Replies From the Plaintiff are due within 10 days, and Affidavits of Documents are due 30 days later.

[Update from May 6: Ogilvy Renault, the law firm which launched the case has asked for an extension of 15 days to reply to the Defense. They claim delays due to breakdown of email servers, blackberry communication, travel of senior lawyer, time difference with Paris etc...The more delays in this file, the more damage it creates to the reputation of the Ismaili community, the Imam and the defendants. It is to the advantage of all parties that this case be withdrawn from the courts.]

[Update from June 22: Defendants have filed a Motion for summary Judgement to have the case dismissed.]

[Update from September 5:
Online Book that gathers court materials as well as articles that are currently available for the ongoing 2010 Lawsuit:

Copyright Lawsuit 2010: Online Book of All available Materials
News on cross-examinations:
Copyright Lawsuit: CROSS_EXAMINATIONS Table of Contents - 2010-09-04
Latest Development
Copyright Lawsuit: Imam Appears for Discovery and Ends the Case - 2010-10-15
As users are asking to read the letters from Nagib and Alnaz on the court docket, the latest have been attached on the following link:
A. Various Court Filings

Revised Factums have been posted Here:
2010-11-29 Summary Judgment : Plaintiffs Revised Combined Factums of Reply and of Motion
2010-11-29 Summary Judgment: Defendants' Revised Factums of Motion and of Reply

There has been proven fraud in the recent past in the Aga Khan's domain by the Aga Khan's agents:
Aga Khan Lawsuit: Fraud at Aga Khan Studs - 2000-02-22

2011-05-25: A Jamati Member who has never met the Defendants volunteered as his brotherly duty to pay the $30,000 that was demanded in the Plaintiff''s submissions and that was accordingly ordered by the judge.
Read the full details of the $30,000 payment directly to H.H. The Aga Khan.

2011-06-16: The Appeal Memorandum of Fact and Law against the Summary Judgment has been filed in court by the defendants on June 16th, 2011.
Read the Full Appeal Memorandum of Fact and Law

Link to Court Docket Case T-514-10
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-60-11
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-59-11
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-156-13

Latest News Comments

AttachmentSize
Tajdin Defence Apr 29.10.pdf491.02 KB
Jiwa AK Defence Apr 29.10.pdf543.82 KB

Comments

Hazar Imam does not edit

Hazar Imam does not edit Farmans, he only annotate them. When the Imam makes a farman, it is Final, read the Code of Conduct by Qadi Numan. The base of understanding the Imam as Mazhar of Allah are very strong in Ismailism. [Paris Conference 1975].

According to Ismailis who followed Imam Ismail because Imam Jafar Sadiq made a Farman that Ismail, his son will be the next Imam, the Imam is infallible making Farman, there is no mistake nor editing. The Ithnashri on the other hand said Imam Jafar Sadiq made a mistake appointing Ismail and therefore edited it to be Musa Kazim. Read out history, its all over the place.

I think, your historical

I think, your historical references don’t seem to have any relevancy in this issue. What I believe, as an Ismaili, that Imam of the Time can do whatever he wants to do at a given time and that is absolutely on his discretion only. He can even tell his followers to believe that it is midnight at 3 pm in the afternoon or can issue even unimaginable proclamations or decrees that I can’t even tell you right now due to your seemingly limited capability to understand the power and authority of the Ismaili Imam.

Let’s say, a mild example, that Hazar Imam announces tomorrow morning that Princess Zahra will be the next Imam of the Time, I know, I know, that has not been the Ismaili tradition to have a female as the Imam and it seems completely at odd against the fundamental articles of the ismaili faith, but then again, it is the Imam’s discretion and complete authority to make any amendments at any time that he sees necessary to serve the humanity at a given time. We cannot say or dictate what Imam can or cannot do. Period.

Having said that, whether Hazar Imam edits or annotates his Faramin Mubarak later on or not is not supposed to be any concern of Ismailia community since He is divine and knows better than anybody about what is going on and what needs to be done about his business.

I think, today Ismaili Muslims have a world class and phenomenal organizational structure of leadership in place guided by His Highness the Aga Khan. Obviously the leadership is made of Humans and so is vulnerable to make mistakes and can have other short comings and such but I think that’s not what is at the stake here.

unprecedented changes by Imam !

I agree if Imam gives guidance we must follow them. Imam has and is making changes which are unprecedented. Imams also can make different Farmans according to the time which may and do superseed earlier guidance.

Imam directs us to seek information and give ideas. Imam has directed leaders who are there to serve the Jamat. I think yu are wrong therefore because what is the problem is some of the Leadership. IU agree any change must and will come from the Ledership and the Imam insitutionally which Imam has empowered.

However and equally we must contribute our thoughts ideas and seek information from our leaders institutionally as directed by Imam.

Regarding your example of Princess Zahra, whilst in the constitution and historically it is a male issue, as with the recent unprecedented changes, if and when such or more unprecedened changes are made I have no doubt they will be followed. remember Hazar Imam was appointed being the grand son (not traditional)

Imam's authority

1. You seem to disagree with Mr Sachedina who said in his cross-examination twice that Hazar Imam thinks in French and speaks in English, so his spoken word should not be followed. He went on to add that Imam's spoken word to the Jamat is not a Farman and should not be followed until and unless it comes back edited and from ITREB. How does that not undermine Imam's authority?

2. Historically, Farmans have been changed, even at the peak of Ismaili leadership in the world, Vizirs have manipulated Farmans and have diverted the Majority of followers away from the Imam. Those instances are clear in history. Why can it never happen again? Were previous Imams less powerful? Or maybe were the "followers" duped by following some leaders instead of following the Imam Himself? Remember, Imam wants us to be vigilant and to expect dialog and accountability from leaders, even those who control Farmans.

Your thinking process is

Imam has said he annotates, not that he edits. Whatever the Imam has said is binding to the Murids.

I agree with you that there is no way a human being can understand with his limited mind the unlimited powers of the Imam.

Your thinking process is right but your example is flawed, actually it support what I say.

Imam has already said Princess Zahra will not be the next Imam. http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/18999

So are you saying Imam made a mistake when he said so?

Leaders in question want the

Leaders in question want the status quo motivated totally by self interest. That is why. For example Soulmate. unverified- seems to speak for Leaders and like Sachedina and Manji in ( vancouverite) saying that time for dialogue with leaders is over. That is going against Imams Farmans. Why? does he know? does he care? No!

My reply to Soulmate – It is never too late for dialogue nor should it ever be between,especially murids – murids and leaders- and Murshid and Murids – “..remember I am always with you…” – We must not have dialogue because of legal or legalities is simply and at best an excuse. Imam wishes us all always to have dialogue Right Soulmate?

Dont talk about Leaders or

Dont talk about Leaders or the Noorani family in public say Zak and Jena on vancouverite (Not verified) but they say it is OK to talk about them in private amongst ourselves.

They seem to represent the views of Dr SS and MM, They demonstrate double standards if what they say in private is not the same as what they say in a public forum

What we say in a public forum and in private should be the same. If it is different then we are obviously having double standards and not telling the truth or we are ashamed or we are afraid ? Right Zak & Jena?

Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman

Ya Ali Madad. Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman Golden Edition 1957-2009, MP3 Bookmark - Nagib has done a "brilliant, genius and beautiful" work here. The younger/new generation and others would all really appreciate reading the Farman Book and also enjoy listening to MP3 (Extracts of Farmans made by Hazar Imam), in this new, modern "tech. era". I think the younger/new generation would enjoy MP3 when they can hear Hazar Imam's voice, as He makes one of these Farmans(an Extract) "I give to each an every one of you My Best, Best Loving Blessings, remember that I am with you all the time and I mean all the time, Khanavadan, Khanavadan, Khanavadan - Gilgit 1996". I am sure they would feel their "Imam's assurance of being with them all the time", and I think others would feel the same. Nagib, Thank You.

@Yasmin

Yasmin Bahen
YAM & And a Big Thank You it bring tears in my eyes when you write one can listen on MP3 ""I give to each an every one of you My Best, Best Loving Blessings, remember that I am with you all the time and I mean all the time, Khanavadan, Khanavadan, Khanavadan - Gilgit 1996". " I wish if I had this book too I could have listen to my Khudavinds divine blessed voice again and again, and again many, many, many times a thousand times ""I give to each an every one of you My Best, Best Loving Blessings, remember that I am with you all the time and I mean all the time, Khanavadan, Khanavadan, Khanavadan" Blessed are my Ismaili brothers & sisters who has this Edition so that can read and listen on MP3, May Mowla Bapa Bless us all and bring unity in our Jamat world wide and may we all live in peace, prosperity, harmony, unity and as true momin brothers & sisters among us around the Globe, Ameen.

@Nick and @Bloglaw

Ya Ali Madad. Many thanks for your comments and Ameen. Let us pray to Hazar Imam to give "peace and strength" to Nagib and Alnaz's families, who are going through this difficult time. Let us also make Our Beloved Hazar Imam always happy. Thank You

Ameen Yasmin - So wonderful

Ameen Yasmin - So wonderful but also So sad that our top leaders in question do see this too and they make sure all Farmans and all guidance is available and accessible by all members of the jamat globally. Especially when they top Leaders say Imam has directed all Farmans (with annotations?) should be made available in all JK's and Imam has also agreed to the printing of Farmans confirmed by SS in the lawsuit.

let us hope and pray they do Ameen Yasmin Thank you for your thoughts I feel ALL ismailies need this and will appreciate learn from and treasure this very much.

what judge would have done? Time of Prophet Mohammad

YAM.

Judge made the terrible mistake when he compared HI with the Pope; And our leaders did terrible mistakes when our they allowed so called HI's attorney to continue on that line in order to win the case in their favor. There action is equivalent of reverting HI's golden Jubilee accomplishments. In Golden Jubilee HI was saying he is Imam of the time and he had direct link to Prophet and Fatimid Kings. HI disagreed all the time with his comparison with Pope. Here our leader allowed that comparison. It is shame on them.

Since our beloved prophet was Umi (illiterate), he did proof read the Aya and corrected the Aya. If the same challenge was raised today with this judge he would have declared Prophet could not do the proof read and therefore, Aya may not be same and might have change to it.

In this case, judge negate the Imam's same capability that Prophet had, because Judge and our leader went along the line that HI did not authenticate the firman book submitted in the Mehmani.

There is no fault with our leaders because ISS did not existed when they were raised - some people sees HI richest person, some people sees HI as horse racers, some people sees HI as a human and We people see HI as a lord of the time, has knowledge about everything and has ability to read even without opening the page.

@Bloglaw

786
Dear brother Bloglaw,
Could you please explain what you mean exactly when you say that the judgment is a win win ?
Ya Aly madad.

Why win win

My rarlier reason why this is a win win for all are as follows; I will post sn update shortly. Thank you

If expert evidence had been submitted by any party regardng Mehmani as being secularly explained and clarified in the nature of a covenant and of its santity and significance in the murid and murshid context, then the Judge would have ruled differently. The following sentence is critical in coming to his conclusions and ruling;

".As mentioned earlier we are in the realm of civil law, not religion. No expert evidence has been filed as to the significance of ceremonial gestures. Given the ordinary meaning of the words used in the exchange between His Highness the Aga Khan and Mr. Alibhay, I simply cannot find that the Aga Khan gave his consent to Mr. Tadjin’s endeavours... "

Therefore the santity of Mehmani is preserved and respected by the Judge (even secularly speaking). Since the Judge has therefore given respect to mehmani by explaining the basis of his ruling and conclusions which are summariised in his sentence above, I hope and pray that this lawsuit will end.

There are many widening gaps highlighted and debated which the leaders are aware of and which MHI will address with the support of the Leaders and members of the Jamat. I also have not doubt as do Alnaz and Nagib that MHI will meet them again.

Bloglaw' s above post of Jan. 19 (in response to my question)

786
Thank you for taking the trouble to read my question and for replying, brother Bloglaw.
If I recall correctly, solid explanations re: the sanctity of mehmani was given in court before hand by Nagib. In my eyes, this judgment is not, can never be a win win situation.
In at least two places in the judgment I had the strong impression that the judge had either not read all the documents or had deliberately chosen to disregard the information they contained, for reasons that I know well but would not dare to state on any public place.
Thank you again, though.
Ya Aly madad.

@Bloglaw: Mehmani explanation?

From reading the court documents, NT/AJ did explain Mehmani in pleadings and in affidavits. They mentioned the covenant of Bayat, Farmans being from the Noor and binding to them, the constitution reaffirming the individual bond of the Imam with each Murid, and Both SS and AB conceded in their cross-examinations about how the Imam listens and gives guidance during Mehmani. And the Judge conceded that the Imam did approve something with regards to the "continuation" of KIZ...

The contradiction came only from Gray's pleadings saying that it can't be assumed that Imam remembers the mehmani, it can't be assumed that the Imam understood what was in front of him, etc... None of this was backed by ANY proof, so why would a judge believe the pleadings over the evidence?

What was missing?

A very Good question - The

A very Good question - The judge chose to beleive the affidavits of Sachedina and A Bhaloo and their cross examination as compared to The defendants even though the judge said that he had NO doubt Alnaz And Nagib knew their faith and so meaning of mehani very well. No other independant evidence was before the Judge. judge who remarked that Dr Sacedina was top leader And so was A Bhaloo who had lined up against Alnaz and Nagib (his words) So in absence of other evidence and not having any expert corroborating evidence the. The Judge on a balance of probabilities would choose and chose the Top Ismaili leaders represented by top lawyers against 2 unknown defendants relatively speaking, and finally of course this is a case in the name of THE Aga Khan. Hence A clear win win I believe and the judge could not have done any better. sadly the 2 top leaders are to blame too, and also for not concluding as directed by Hazar Imam on 15 th October 2010.

@Librarian-umed

786
Would you be able to explain what will be the consequences of the judgment given by the judge on the availability of future farman, and the fact that it is an erroneous meaning of mehmani that is given by him? I hope my question is making sense...Thank you in advance.
Ya Aly madad.

KIZ book

I received an e. mail from an unknown person. In his e, mail he wants me to dispose off my copy of ‘KIZ’ book as according to him it is blasphemous to keep one in one’ house. Let alone read it.
I wrote back to him,’ I was not fortunate enough to get hold of that book, but one of my friends has it and I am going get the entire book photocopy and get it blided.’ I also told him the reason for doing that and it is the direction which Hazar Imam gave to NT/AJ in the meeting that all those who have these books keep them.’
Almost 4800 books are in circulation all around the global Ismaili Jamat, and many people like me, particularly from countries like India, Pakistan, Afganistan, Bangladesh and Tajikistan are going to make photocopies of it and make them binded in the book form, In those countries copy rights laws are meaningless. Well, there are two kinds of people who are going to do that: one, those who are sincere and want to get the benefits out of it, while others are those who out of curiosity want to know as to what kinds of Farmans are they that our top leaders do not want Jamat to know. So to me, the whole purpose of copy right case and its verdict by the court is meaningless in all these countries. My guess is that soon there will be more than thousands of photocopy books will be in circulation in Jamats.
By this post I would like to send a message to our all those top leaders that if to keep or reading this book is ‘Gunaah’, then please make such an announcement in all the Jamatkhans, but this time not only in Canada and Kenya alone, but to all global Jamatkhans because the book has reached in many countries. Even some of my friends asked me if I had an original book. They wanted to make photocopies of the same. If this announcement is not made in time, there will be many many photocopies in circulation besides 4800 original books.

@Asif Momin's above post (Jan. 18)

786
Thank you for sharing the above, Asif. And I am glad that as many as 4800 books are in circulation! I just wish everyone who wanted it could have it.
Ya Aly madad.

@Asif Momin

How can "reading this book is ‘Gunaah’, when it contains the Holy Farmaan of our beloved Hazar Imam?

@N.K

Ya Ali Madad. Very well said. Thank You.

@Yasmin

You are most well come! and I mean it that how can it be a "Gunnah" by reading our Imams Holy Farmaans made by him to his loving Jamat during the occasion of his visit to his Ruhani Children living around the world for his Zaaheri Noorani Deedar.

@N.K.

Ya Ali Madad. Thank you N.K. Reading Holy Farmans from Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman is not "Gunnah". Do these ismailis know the meaning of "Gunnah". Gunnah is to "attack people verbally especially Nagib and Alnaz in this lawsuit, calling them devils and liars, telling people that they are a cult group, hurt people emotionally, etc. These are "Gunnahs". Thank You.

The issue isn't Gunnah

The issue is that if Hazar Imam himself did not look at the copy of the book, or review his own words - how can you be certain that that the firmans written by these possibly well meaning individuals can be accurate?

After all, despite their intentions, NT/AJ - they are human beings prone to errors. So if Hazar Imam himself has not approved of the books, then you cannot be sure of the book's accuracy.

By accepting that whoever

By accepting that whoever has the Farman book, he can keep it, the Imam has confirmed that the Book is accurate as far as it can be. Imam has His owns ways of doing things.

Some people wanted the book and did not get it, Imam did not want them to get it at this time. Some got it and burned it, Imam spiritually ensure that only those who He had allowed to read that book were allowed to do so.

When we want to put a physical burden on Imam to verify "humanly" everything which is happening around Him, we are depriving Him of His Spiritual Imamat.

This is why one farman says Yazid and Shimar were better, they only tried to kill the body of the Imam but some of you are trying to kill the [Spiritual Noor of] Imamat.

How can we be for certain

How can we be for certain that MHI actually said that others can keep the book?

Seeking proof

Our beloved Prophet Mohammed at Gadir-e-khoom made a Farman, 'he whose Mawla I am, Aly is his Mawla as well.'  This Farman was not documented  (in writing) nor was it made part of the Holy Quran.  The Prophet could have documented this very important Farman and had He done so might have avoided the split between Sunnis and Shias.  In His wisdom He chose the split to occur and did nor take steps to prevent the split.

The effect of not documenting was that the Sunnis started making similar arguments as Chai is doing - prove it.  Of course about a billion Muslims asks the same question, it is their right and privilege to ask, but the effect is that they lost the game, and the believers won.

So my response to Chai and others like him is: the Prophet did not document his Farman, and his grandson is following the same path. The grandson could have documented his Farman made to us on Oct 15, but did not. They know best, we mortals can never understand them.

All I can say to those who lack inner faith and belief, keep looking for evidence.  

You can write to the Imam to

You can write to the Imam to ask. This is your right as Ismaili and it is your obligation to clear doubt in your mind.

Doubt is the way through which the Imam ensures that only those who are meant to have access to his Farmans get access, all the other will leave the Farmans aside.

@Umed

Ya Ali Madad. I fully agree with you. Thank You.

The ball is in the the defendant's court

It is the defendants who are trying to convince other's about what MHI said. If the defendants going to make strong statements, the ball is on their court to prove it

@Chai

Ya Ali Madad. Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman Golden Edition 1957-2009. Brother Chai, may I please give you an advise, from a Spiritual Sister. If you have doubts about Our Beloved Hazar Imam's "Ruhani Decision" to allow all His Spiritual Children who have the Farman Book, to keep it, the best thing for you is to write to Him and "tell Him to prove it", with regard to His Decision. Thank You.

Imam is my witness.

I do not have anything to prove or to convince anyone. My witness is the Imam Himself. I have said what happened. Why should I worry about who believes me and who does not believe me?

Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman

Ya Ali Madad Nagib. I fully agree with you. Thank You.

@Librarian-umed re post of Jan. 19

786
Thank you for enlightening the person who was saying that the issue was accuracy (provided he reads your answer...). I can't believe this, brother Umed, three months later people still don't know that Hazer Imam said we (those who had the book) were allowed to keep it !!!
Ya Aly madad.

Sensless sentence

Someone sent me a sentence that looks lifted from some Tabloid about the judgment in this case. It says "Why would one suppose the Aga Khan had personal knowledge of what a handful of his followers were doing?"

Obviously this can not be written by an Ismaili. Imams knows.

And there is arrogance in thinking that The Ismaili community which has multiple source of communications from all regions [under the ismaili constitutional bodies] to Aiglemont have not told the Imam about each Farman book as soon as they were published. Such statement fall short of saying the Imamate Institutions are useless.

Beside the fact that SS said in cross-examination [on record] that the Imam was aware that I was publishing.

So how credible is this statement?

Where are our Ethics and values?

Haji on vancouverite says : "Bloglaw, keep dreaming, this platform is in action because of the many true ismailies who truly want to be informed by TRUTH (just information) and not various lies of AJ and NT. … Nimet, you are so right, they have chosen the “path of those who have gone astray”, and therefore they choose their OWN DESTINY TO SERVE THE DEVIL! (by disobeying their once a time Imam – there is no redemption for these souls, because they have SOLD THEIR SOUlS TO THE DEVIL FOR-EVER). Sad but true “

Bloglaw replies

Haji I have also been saying we need this platform which is allowing different views including your views which in my opinion are totally unsubstantiated and bordering on the extreme. For example calling Alnaz and Nagib Devils. You should be thankful to the Editor for allowing also you to express your opinions and calling others liars and devils ? I don’t agree he should !

Other Editors would not post such comments, and most of our Leaders would (and should) never condone such comments, because they do not reflect our community, our ethics or the teachings and Farmans of MHI. And yet you call yourself a true Ismaili and your brothers in this case Devils and Liars ! Sad but true ;)

Guidance - How do you know ?

News Editor Vancouverite says - Bloglaw. Do you have a copy of this so-called guidance? How do you know? Also, let me put it to you this way – if there was a discussion – a bouncing around of ideas during an off-the-record discussion and then a conclusion was reached which is on the record and Imam left thinking matters had been resolved only to find out to his frustration that the debate continued, and he decided to tell his attorney to proceed without further wrangling with these guys – doesn’t that tell you that he is frustrated with your group?

Reply by bloglaw

Ýou know full well there was a discusssion because the record says the number of minutes the session lasted. So no ifs and buts there. Hence I am surprised you as Editor say If there was a discussion !

I know what was said because Alnaz and Nagib have shared the information in a number of comments since 15 Oct 2010. We also know for a fact that there was only one issue and difference remaining which is an admission of infringement.

In my view If Imam was frustrated with Alnaz and Nagib he would have spent less than 5 minutes with Alnaz and Nagib.

If as you say MHI could have instructed instructed his lawyers to proceed after 15 Oct 2010. Assuming MHI did, then It is possible he did not have all the complete and the correct information , and also not if the Leaders had met Alnaz and Nagib, agreed the text of the directions and the consent order and presented it to MHI.

You add that maybe some ideas were discussed. and MHI said May I make a suggestion. Immediately, and the normal practice is that during meetings with MHI, even if there are ideas being discussed, What Imam says about those Ideas and thoughts, are and should have been recorded by our Leaders SS & MM, and then shared and implemented. Mr Gray certainly will have done too and even if so , Leaders should do too. This includes the fact that Imam did not agree to the suggestion by Dr Sachedina and M Manji the MHI should direct the closure of the Ismaili Heritage website ?

Editor; Maybe you should ask Dr SS to share this Farman, directions and also the 3 draft consents with you, and with all leaders and the Jamat ? There can be no question I hope that all Imams Farmans should be shared by Leaders (with the annotations) as Imam reminded us in the London GJ, Farmans. Can you think of any reason why the leaders are not or should not share this with the Jamat ?

Many people assume that for

Many people falsely assume that in Toronto on 15 October 2010 for half hour the defendants and Hazar Imam just played cards and had some social conversations about the weather in Canada and the influence of climate change on the quantity of milk produced by African cow around Nairobi :-)

Farman on 15 Oct superseeds .... ?

Editor Vancouverite replies : "And have you followed the farmans in two letters and the Boston affidavit? You’re such a fake Bloglaw and you keep repeating things. Move on. There were no farmans made during a court ordered discovery. Remember the box of chocolates was turned away. There were no religious services during the on-record and off-record sessions. There was no mehmani either and that was made clear by the refusal to touch the chocolates in case there was another book hidden inside "

Reply by bloglaw

Editor : Chocolate acceptance has 2 versions yours and Nagib-Alnaz who were there. We don't have a version from SS and MM who were present. So I will agree to disagree with you. Maybe you can get SS and MM to share their version. I mean this seriously.

Regarding the Boston affidavit and two letters, do you think the directions and Farman on 15 Oct 2010, supersede them all or a part , or not ? Assuming directions stated by Nagib and Alnaz were given by MHI (or a variation which I hope Leaders will and should also share )

And please read again the definition of a Farman be it in lawsuit or the constitution. Directions, messages, guidance call them what you will were given by MHI on 15th Oct 2010, and a discussion took place. They should be shared and implemented. Where does it say such messages directions or guidance Farman has a different meaning or should be ignored. Remembering also Farmans given are INCLUSIVE and include both the spiritual and temporal (Material/Legal/venues/ etc.)

Also re annotations in your view a part of Farmans also to be shared ? I presume not :)

Objectivity

:) Editor does not obviously support Alnaz or Nagib. He is baised and hence unfortunately the lack of responsible journalism or objectivity in reporting and moderation.

My response to September

My response to September unverified in vancouverite

Imam gave guidance and directions on 15th Oct for some 25 minutes. That is a recorded fact. You are saying that some is off the record and therefore what is off the tecord never happened and should be ignored?

Imam after Darbar gives guidance to leaders before leaving and annotates Leaders write these down share and impliment some. imam gives Mulakats in Aiglemont and elsewhere regularly They write down and share some. Normal practice. Are those not farmans to be shared according to you? An elderly scholar was given a mulakat 10 years ago and what imam said was Written down and has not been shared or implemented

In this case I feel Alnaz And Nagib and SS and MM should share the Farman and directions with us and the Jamat too. Imagine if they had as is usual written down the guidance and then signed an agreed consent order presented an agreed text ofcthecdirections to Imam for guidance and annotations if any? And then also shared this with all the leaders and the jamat in an announcement in JK?

I therefore don’t agree with you that what was said by MHI on that day in it’s entirety should not be shared or implemented.

Alnaz and Nagib and/or leaders should share and impliment that guidance to the letter and spirit, as they do and should for all all others too.

``Individual Letter sent to Mawlana Hazar Imam``

I agree with Ms. Yasmin that the Ismaili Muslims constitution should not remain a secretive document anymore but should be made available to all Ismaili Muslims. Further it should also be read out in Ismaili Muslims Jamatkhana to alleviate any mistrust on Ismaili Muslims appointed leadership. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Nizar you I hope will write

Nizar you I hope will write to leaders with your suggestions and thoughts and I sincerely hope they will, acknowledge, welcome and consider them and let you know. this is what should happen normally

foam and essence

A prominent writer once wrote that.’ The damage and destruction inflicted on Islam and Islamic culture by Muslims themselves were far greater than carried out by all the non Islamic forces combined.’
I feel this is also true in case of Ismailism. Vizier Afdal ( vizier during Fatimid caliph Imam Mustansir Billah) was an insider who without resorting to much force and taking away many lives of Murids, for fulfilling his own agenda, succeeded in his crafty design to divide Ismailism into two further branches: Mustalian and Nizari.
On the other hand, Helagu Khan, the ferocious Tartar general with his mighty army though succeeded in ravaging almost all the Ismaili forts and massacring thousands and thousands of Ismailis including women and children, failed dividing Nizari Ismailism. The reason, he was an outsider and has, unlike Afdal, no special agenda other than political motive.
We must be careful of modern day Afdals who just to win a purely case in the court, during their cross examinations affirmatively stated and gave the impression to the judge and the others that the religious ritual of ‘Mehmani’ has no spiritual significance or value.

Ismailism itself is a Batini Deen(Tariqa) and the essence of every Zaheri ritual has a Batini aspect. If one neglects the Batini aspect from any religious rituals, what is left is certainly no more Ismailism. Maulana Rumi says beautifully that Zaheri side of any religious rituals is like a foam, what is hidden behind this foam is a vast deep ocean of essence, depth of which is unlimited. This essence or Batini aspect behind our each Zaheri ritual is the ‘Ruh’ of Ismailism. Once you take out the ‘Ruh’ from it, what is left, foam? Of no value?

Maulana Rumi at one place says that Allah almighty desired to keep foam in good order so he made certain people to turn their backs to the ocean in order to maintain the foam. Did not that infinite Ocean and Lord of both the worlds during discovery meeting acted so innocently and kept His veil (or foam) intact?

Perhaps this case is a trial or test of Iman of all of us. Each one perceives differently depending upon level his Iman. But true Momins, through their BK Bandagi penetrate this foam and enter into that vast unseen Ocean and able to gather pearls from it.

@Kasamali re:Jan. 16th post

786
Thank you for this lovely post!
Ya Aly madad.

@Kassamali

Ya Ali Madad Kassamali. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I always say that I enjoy being on "Heritage Website", because it is a "knowledgeable, peaceful" site, and also there is "discipline and respect" for each other, and that's what Our Beloved Hazar Imam wants. Thank You.

Judgment

The Judgment on the Motions heard on 7th and 8th December say this is a copyright matter which has nothing to do with religion. I wonder why then all those who say it is a fair judgment, why are these same people still interested to debate the religious aspect of it?

Those who are still commenting and debating the issue clearly believe there is a religious dimension to this case and therefore can only be consistent with themselves by distancing themselves from the judgment in this matter by Harrington.

And personally when a judge say about Farmans that there is an infringement while we know Hazar Imam consider it a book good enough and want it to be kept by all those who were lucky to get it, believing the judge or believing Hazar Imam is definitively a religious issue.

judgment

Right and this is a big test for us, a big test of our iman.

yes Even the judge

yes Even the judge recognises there is a religious dimension and this is a matter for MHI and critical to that are directions given on 15 th October 2010 personally by MHI which have not been followed and if left to DrSS will not be because implimentation institutionally goes through him and is controlled by him.

My reply to a comment by Fatima unverfied in vancouverite who call other ismailies and especially on this site a cult with a cult leadership.

Fatima, so you are a spokesperson for others ? May be leaders? Andc you call those who agree with AJ and NT and do not agree with you and your friends a cult? This is against our Imams wishes and our ethics to say about others let alone about ismailies (brothers and sisters) So what would you call you and those who agree with you ? Please reflect on this with your group, friends or family you are refering to in your comment We all wonder,,,,

I do not know if there will be an appeal or indeed if any motions from Mr Gray. We will have to wait and see.

My hope and prayer is there will be dialogue and settlement as soon as possible. Always as directed by MHI.

Analysing is normal & Good

Editor of vancouverite wants us to believe that anyone seeking information or even analysing the judgment are challenging our top leaders SS MM and AB and also Imam , and also the Judge. My response which he may not post

Editor: Regarding the judgment : Challenging judgments in appeals happen all the time. The judge has given his reasons which are open to analysis scrutiny and interpretation which is also quite normal. Until there is an appeal most who are not lawyers are giving some thoughts. We will have to wait and see if there is an appeal

Regarding challenging the leadership. I do not agree that we should not challenge the leadership by seeking information and answers from them and seeking for them to share. That is in accordance with guidance from MHI

Therefore and consequently no one is challenging MHI.

Therefore I totally disagree with your speculative and baseless conclusions that ismailies who seek answers from our institutions which are managed and governed by our leaders are somehow or in anyway, challenging our Imam. In fact I think we are doing exactly the opposite and leaders should be happy to respond and to welcome enquiry and information from everyone and treat all those who seek, equally and with equal respect

“We have our eccentricity”

YAM, BLOGLAW! We all are human beings! We have our eccentricity!! Any judgement can be appealed if the decision appears to be beyond our expectation. Is it a practicable solution? Most of the times, a judgement is very rarely overturned. And if it is accepted for a formal change, it will become a very lengthy procedure; and additional finances will be required to sustain this process. I think one is not wrong if the outcome of a court case is analysed. Because it gives us the opportunity to understand our miscalculation, our misdeed, and misdemeanour. But this examination has to be done objectively and without any impartiality.

In first place, this litigation was disputed with strong arguments. This procedure took about a year. The temporal and spiritual lives of Ismaili Muslims were discussed. The Ismaili Muslims rituals were discussed very elaborately but the Court of Laws gave a resounding victory to Mawlana Hazar Imam. The Ismaili Muslims Institution will not commit itself when the directive has come from Mawlana Hazar Imam.

This court case has become a public interest. In this part of the world, we are very fortunate to acquire information from various news media, court dockets, and a variety of web sites. The reason I am saying this is simply to stress that we are in better position to acquire information which is first-hand and up-to-date. Even if by insistence, Mr. Bloglaw, if you are able to obtain the information you are seeking from the Ismaili Muslims Institution; it will be legally up a point and extraction of all the information which is already at our disposal.

I do not think personally, if we decide to seek information from the Ismaili Muslims Institution is like challenging Mawlana Hazar Imam. But we have to exercise due respect and diplomacy in this process of getting information. I hope Librarian Umed will post this blog in Ismaili.Net. With my thanks, and sincere prayers for our betterment. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Nizar If you comment here

Nizar If you comment here and or agree, then according to Editor of vancouverite and the group agreeing with him you are wrong snd must be silenced by the leadership. According to Fatima and those she says she speaks for (unverified) All here and therefore you are also member of a cult with a cult leadership?

Nizar please see my response to her and you may wish to give your thoughts.

“My thoughts are expressed independently"

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! I express my thoughts and comments in accordance with time and issues confronting us. But if I venture into any un-chartered web site to express myself, it does not indicate that I should agree with all chartered web sites. My thoughts and comments are mine which are expressed as autonomous and without any prompting. It comes about as both these web site – The Ismaili.Net and the Vancouverite accepts my blogs at their conveniences. I have faced with rejection, dejection, and some very nasty comments have been thrown into my way but I have taken into my stride with my appropriate replies with all due civility. I have duly read your comments, and I must say you have every right to express yourself as you deem fit. Nobody should silence anybody! Consequently, freedom of expression should prevail for a healthy debate and discussion! I hope and pray Librarian Umed will accept this blog in good faith as no criticism are intended to anyone. Concluding, with my good prayers for our betterment. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Hyderabad, Pakistan 22

Hyderabad, Pakistan 22 March 1989

"Bring forward your ideas. It is only the stupid person who doesn't listen to ideas. It means he is like a horse who lives with blinkers and all he sees ahead of him is a little tiny dimension of light. No, that's not for our Jamat. Listen to ideas, develop ideas, create ideas and bring them forward for the service of the Jamat."

@ Nimet misinformed or uninformed !

Nimet unverified says in Vancouverite "…..The Global Jamat ...... do follow the institutions set by Mowlana Hazar Imam. There should be NO arguments about it. 50 precious Years of guidance of our Beloved Imam has come through our leaders…… We are fortunate that we never did or will have these type of leaders (AJ/NT) in our jamats!!!!!!!!

Reply by bloglaw

So do you say there should be NO argument or feedback even if you know SOME LEADERS are not following or sharing Imams guidance, for example Dr SS and MM ?

Imam GUIDES US to give feedback and to ask, seek and to share. That is also called dialogue which is not a one way street as you seem to be advocating Right Nimet ? )

Why would Imam say openly and jovially to the Jamat and Leaders, Leaders are not sharing some of his guidance with the Jamat. Was Imam refering to and reminding one or some of the Top Leaders ?

I suggest you read again some of the farmans quoted earlier, and above, or get copies and read. Do you also agree there should be no arguement or serious concerns expressed , when ;

1 Dr SS and MM did not even meet Alnaz before and after the lawsuit was filed ?
2 ALL Farmans are not available in all JK’s.
3 Leaders in question are going against Imams guidance and wishes by not sharing or having a dialogue

Dr SS did not discuss this lawsuit with Alnaz, institutionally before it was filed ? and Dr SS says this was Imam’s wish ? Generally and in this case after the meeting on 15th October 2010, Why would Imam go against his own directions, and the institutional process he has set up, and against his guidance on always having dialogue. I do not beleive Imam did, does or will do ?

Maybe you can find out from the Leaders and share their responses. Ismailies are all on the same side and in seeking answers, analysing or giving feedback they are all helping and following Imams guidance. Remember also what Imam said in his speech on 15th October, we need to look at who we are and not look at ourselves by looking at who we are against (as you seem to be doing – right? )

" OUR THOUGHTS ARE DIVIDED DURING OUR PRAYERS"

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! This lawsuit has happened not because it is reminding us to contribute to contemplation and refresh our understanding on our religion but it is happened because of the copyright infringements. Our understanding and ethics have gone astray. We have misinterpreted the values of our religion, and our religion has become a source of comfort only during the times of our trial and tribulations! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

A Blessing in disguise

Nizar, I feel the lawsuit happened to also to inform and highlight issues for us all and all Leaders. copyright and infringement legally speaking, is I feel merely a conduit, the vehicle. A blessing in disguise.

The printing of the next volume of the book of farmans can also be seen as the catalyst to inform & remind the Jamat the Leaders. If not for the lawsuit how would we have known ? This lawsuit and reflection by the Leadership which I feel is ongoing. They are all aware and reading comments, ideas, suggestions and feedback.

Imam reminds us not to let our faith become a faith of convenience and the right balance between din and dunya is exteremely important for us in this life and eternity hereafter.

"There is always something good in any human being"

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! We have to be grateful with our gain and our loss! Sometime people say that whatever happens happens for a reason. There is no fix answer to anything that is happening or not happening but one thing is sure which will happen without any indication which is ‘death.’ When the birth happens the death will eventually follow without any human intervention. Therefore the time between the birth and the death gives us enough opening to learn from our experience what is right and what is wrong. Anything can be a catalyst to prepare ourselves. And a conduit can only allow the smooth sailing, provided one is aware about the intended inner thoughts and direction of one's pursuit! A religion of convenience does not have any significant in one’s life because it is empty. This emptiness is realised with the age because it is suggesting there is imbalance. The imbalance can only be rectified by accepting the equality. I do not think the temporal life is only the solution to our well being! Like you have said “din and dunya” is extremely important for us in this life and the eternity hereafter after. I would like to this opportunity to thank your good self and Librarian Umed for your kind consideration. This reflection and thoughtfulness is needed to communicate. There is always something good in any human being which is always noticed and appreciated. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

People who can keep the book are the real winners

I think the people who are able to retain their copies of KIZ are the real winners. Everything in this world happens for a reason and I think it might be in their 'Naseeb' or 'Destiny' to have these Farmans. The Imam specifically said that they can keep the books. Poor SS and MM cannot do anything about it. Mr Jiwa and Mr Tajdin were the medium through which these Ismailies could get the Farmans. Also the material in the KIZ hasn't been challenged. So I think those people who have got a copy of the KIZ are the 'REAL WINNERS'.

Please quote this firman

quote ......" The Imam specifically said that they can keep the books"......unquote

Brother Iman : Can you please give a reference [date/place/source etc}
to this particular Firman of Imam-e-Zaman , where you assert that He specifically said that ?

Thank You

Allahu Alim .

Imam said whoever has got a

Imam said whoever has got a copy of the Golden Edition Farman book can keep it. He said that in a Board room on the 38th Floor, in Ogilvy Renault offices in my presence and confirmed the matter more then once. You want the date, it was 15 October 2010 Toronto. You want the time, it was between 10:40am and 11:10am

How will you know if I am telling the truth? Easy: He also said He will give us all His Farmans and meet us again and we will work together. So when you see Him giving us all His Farmans with His handwritten annotation and you see Him meeting us again and working with us, you will know what is true and what is false.

Nagib

I know now, and believe

I know now, and believe Nagib ALSO because Hazar Imam spent 30 minutes instead 5 minutes and instead of starting with - may I make a suggestion - Imam I feel would have simply said; I am the plaintiff and I ask you to withdraw ALL allegations and admit to infringement. Nagib would have said Ameen and obeyed. This would have lasted less that 5 minutes. There are other reasons too which I have given in my other posts.

Zak may be now you should also request Dr SS and MM to share with you and the Jamat Imams Farman and directions of 15th oct 2010. If you are told Imam gave different guidance after 15th October, then also ask when who was present, venue etc .Same as you asked on this site. I doubt you will get any response or even an acknowledgment unless you are very connected with the Leaders.

People who can keep the book are the real winners

@ Imam,
The farmans in the KIZ are copyright as per judgement, therefore the KIZ contains stolen works of IMAM. DO YOU STILL WANT TO KEEP THE COPY??

When the Judge of all Judges

When the Judge of all Judges has spoken, who are you to contradict the Imam? Oups I know who you are, visram & Alykhan the guy posting from Aurora/Richmond Hill, the same who has been careless leaving a trace of his threats on the Internet.. definitively not a very wise move in this technological era....

@Visram

Umed, I wish to add this comment to my previous posting. If Hazar Imam allows me to keep "Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman", I will keep this Precious Book as "Treasure". Thank You.

@Visram

Ya Ali Madad. Farmans in Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman, Farmans handwritten by someone for reciting, or Farmans published by Tariqah Board, as long as none of them have been edited are "Farmans", and one has to respect them. Your last sentence, DO YOU....................???? I think that answer you will get from Hazar Imam, because He allowed copies of "Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman" to be kept by all the Ismailis who had them. Thank You.

Respecting Firmans

@ Visram

I agree that ALL Firmans of Imam-e-Zaman must be respected and followed including published , hand written and if I may add orally transmitted, HOWEVER the source and authenticity are crucial. Just like in case of Sahih Hadeeths of the Prophet pbuh. When and where did Hazar Imam say that He "...allowed copies of KIZ to be kept by all Ismailis who had them ..." as you assert above ? Thank you. Allahu Alim .

@Zak

Ya Ali Madad. Zak, I think you have the answer to your question from Nagib Tajdin. Thank You.

@Iman

SS, MM and AB also lost their proposal to HI to ban the Heritage site, a site with much
valuable and spiritual knowledge about our Tariqa. However, I am sure, these leaders and
Vancouverite are not going to keep quite, they will continue to make all efforts to get their
proposal approved from HI.

KKK

Reading the comments of Ismailis on vancouverite.com makes my eyes water and reminds me of the American south and the emergence of the Klu Klux Klan. I can't believe that in this age and time we have such fanatics in our community who know nothing about the principles of forgiveness. It's a real shame and reflects very very poorly on our community, its principles and ultimately our Imam

I think it would be appropriate here to quote MHI's own words delivered at the 50th Anniversary celebration of Nation Media House in Nairobi on March 18, 2010. - "“Let me sound a word of caution. Freedom, in any area of human activity, does not mean the moral license to abuse that freedom.  It would be a sad thing if the people of Africa in the name of freedom, were expected to welcome the worst of media practices, whether they are home-grown or imported,”

The editor of vancouverite should therefore re-examine his stand on freedom of speech.

@Suleman

Ya Ali Madad Suleman. Do these Ismailis realize how much Our Beloved Hazar Imam must be hurting. He has sacrificed His entire Life for us, He loves us more than we love Him, is this what He would expect from His Spiritual Children? It is very sad. Today, wherever you go in the world where Hazar Imam is very well known, and if you tell someone that you are an "Ismaili", they give you so much respect, and it is all because of Our Beloved Hazar Imam. We should make Him happy all the time. Thank You.

It is a shame that they

It is a shame that they don't practice or mean what they say for example we all go into JK and pray for each other and for increasing unity, guidance, togetherness and love in our tashbihat followed by Ameen. What a contradiction to what they then say, the hate mails, provoking and inciting sadly.

On a positive note the lawsuit has provided this forum to share and remind them and us all to reflect, contemplate and refresh our understating and ethics.

@Suleman and Bloglaw

Very well said. Thank you.

Now we have a forum and

Now we have a forum and communication is instant. More of us are seeking and sharing openly with others on all issues with respect. We have excellent other resources here. Also leaders and the Noorani family are more aware, reading, and can find out. we should all feel free and comfortable to seek and share information here anonymously (and in time more openly without fear)

This in itself is a major change and, a change for the better has started. Thanks to Nagib, Alnaz and all those reading (reticent or contributing), Shukhr.

what is the next step

The poor judge did not understand the point at all and I don't blame him, as we said before this case should have never gone public but thanks to the stubborness of our top leader SS it had. Just to show us his power. What a shame. There is a 'bhedd', don't forget that Mowla said to Alnaz and Nagib as He said to Mr Alibhay in 1992 that we'll work together... So I have faith. Alnaz and Nagib, what is the next step now.

possible next step is to seek review

YAM.

Usually in US, defendants can approach same judge within 10 days to re-review his opinion.

Defendants can tell the judge that he has erred since he has not considered:

that 1972 book is subset of golden jubliee edition and so it cannot get the copy right protection.

Anyway, good luck!

The hole in the verdict

YAM.

The court has failed to answer, Is 1992 firman book is subset of the Golden Edition or not?

If defendants have the arguments in this context to subset then this flawed verdict can be overturned on appeal!!!!!! But I don't think defendants should take this route. The best approach would be not to fight on appeal instead submit the judgement to HI via Council and let HI response.

HI can strike this judgment with one stroke of a letter or Talika or making amendments to Ismaili Constitution.

Also, this verdict is written in a way that cannot be used in future.

@The hole in the verdict

submit the judgement to "HI via Council " WOW! Via Council !!!!!!!! and one wish it will reach to HI !!!!!

If Alnaz & Nagib decide not

If Alnaz & Nagib decide not to appeal, they should certainly inform the leadership precisely what Imam directed on 15th October 2010, in a joint letter attaching the 3 related consents. They should also consider sending an appropriate letter to MHI through their national councils.

I appreciate if Alnaz and or Nagib wrote such a letter to MHI it will go via Dr SS (DJI). If they write to MHI then they should also share copies with the leadership, which MHI and most leaders will also appreciate.

Alnaz and Nagib could may be take the view that they have the answer within this judgment, and that they have a personal assurance from MHI to meet them again. May be this judgment can also be seen as an honourable outcome for everyone.

A decision of what is best is at best very difficult and challenging and will require a lot of contemplation and prayers. I will also pray for Alnaz and Nagib

If Alnaz & Nagib decide not

It makes sense, you are 100% right, but if Alnaz and Nagib send a letter to Hazar Imam through the council, it will go straight to Mohamed Manji, who was present to the discovery and denies everything, who is the chamcho of Sachedina, so the letter will be hijacked again. How can it be possible that a single person can be so poweful and is still getting more and more power. The guy controls every access to the Imam. It is like a dictatorship. Everything is under him. He deserves his surname as little god as I heard. We continue to pray for the defendants, for their families. I hope that it will be resolved peacefully because nothing the Imam said in the discovery has been respected by Gray and Sachedina. On the contrary, it seems that the judge did not even read the affidavits of the defendants, he just approved what Sachedina wanted... It is my opinion.

when going through council things are not same

When things pass through council, individual offers their letter under sealed envelope, the contents can be kept confidential.
Usually, officers of Jamat asks if they can open and review the letter and that individual has option to do so or not.

I understand we are not happy with the leadership, it does not give us right to humiliate them. After all these are HI's appointment and we have no authority to question HI.

I know, Imam does receives those letters and he does responses accordingly.

I think defendants are behaving responsibly and with utmost respect even they are hurts.

Since one of the defendants also lives in different jurisdiction of council he can avoid Canadian jurisdiction.

Also, it does not require these correspondences need to submit to council by defendants personally instead they can give to someone and pass it on. If defendants would like to use my service I will be glade to do that.

@Sadrudin

Ya Ali Madad Sadrudin. For many years, there is "mistrust towards our leaders" by many members of the Jamat. I think it is the responsibility of the leaders to resolve many issues in the community, so that the Jamat can start having trust in them. As you have suggested, which is very kind of you in your para. 6, that "these correspondence can also be given to someone and pass it on." Please forgive me Mr Sadrudin, if I am wrong, I think it says in the Constitution, that any correspondence that needs to be sent to Hazar Imam, it has to go through our Council, and the Council will deliver to Him. So why does any member of Jamat has to give that correspondence to someone to get it delivered? As I have said before that many members on this website have made suggestions, and also mentioned that improvements need to be made by the leaders, no-one is attacking these leaders verbally nor humiliating them. I think they should sit down and discuss these issues. Thank You.

when going through council things are not same

Sorry Mr Sadrudin, the point is not to humiliate the leadership, not at all, I don't intend to, on the contrary, the leadership is humiliating the defendants for the moment. I am telling the truth I think, this is the real fact, no letters go directly to the Imam, it can pass through if we can have a devoted leader who can give it directly or if you have the Imam's personal fax number or personal cell number. I have faith that something will come up. Ameen

@Sadrudin @ Rabya - And

@Sadrudin @ Rabya - And letters are not shared with other leaders either. I agree with Rabya also that we are all only sharing and seeking information and knowledge with Leaders and in so doing we are following Imams Farmans and guidance. It is our duty and responsibility to share with and remind in this case Dr SS and the leaders in question, which everyone is doing in this forum and many directly too. Leaders in question do not react or act except through proxies in vancouverite.. How else do you think we can inform all leaders and the Jamat, and be informed amongst ourselves or seek to understand and learn of the truth of and about this lawsuit and the leaders in question?

I respectfully suggest you

I respectfully suggest you double check and verify the information given to you about ALL letters going to Imam e Zaman and about ALL sealed letters opened and considered by the Leaders before any or some are forwarded to Imam e Zaman. Even for letters handed during Darbar and Mehmani. You will find the information given to you is not correct.

FACT - ALL letters to MHI

FACT - ALL letters to MHI are opened, and read before being submitted via Dr SS selectively.

This has been the practice

This has been the practice for over 15 years and one of the reasons why any letters Alnaz or Nagib now were to write to MHI are copied officially also to appropriate Leaders.

Did the Judge say what he meant ?

News Editor Vancouverite :January 12, 2011 Says

" ..Justice Harrington may have missed the point inadvertently in that, the paragraph you quoted consists of an expert opinion by the only expert on Ismailism – the Chief of the Ismaili faith. Got someone better than the Imam as an expert on the Ismaili faith Bloglaw? "

Bloglaw replies

Editor : So you thnk that the Judge has missed the point inadvertanly and therefore the Judge did not say what the Judge meant in that there was no expert evidence regarding the ceremonial gestures (Mehmani) and therefore the judge relied on the non religious civil law interpretation of the evidence. The judge went on to add there was no expert evidence before him regarding Mehmani except that the defendants are saying one thing and Dr SS and AB are saying something else (1.e there is a difference of opinion between them regarding Mehmani.

Therefore I do not think the Judge missed the point inadvertantly and is not saying precisely what the Judge meant to say. Therefore this is a win win and an excellent judgment for everyone.

In your view Editor do let us know if the judge has missed any other points or issues inadvertantly :)

If not addressed effectively

If not addressed effectively and quickly by leaders then this beginning of a potential witch hunt and marginalization of ismailies by ismailies could spread.

A comparable reality is the case of the Ismaili leading scholar, Nasiruddin. Hazar Imam met him with Dr SS and Mr IR and FH 10 years ago. Hazar Imam directed that his books should available to the Jamat, and IIS should work together with him to publish his books.

What is amazing is SS keeps on promising and saying IIS will. In fact some 18 of his books are in the IIS reference library. However 10 years have gone by and his books are not available to the Jamat officially and none have been considered for publication by IIS.

IIS reports to DJI headed by SS and SS is also a governor of IIS. SS knows and controls it all. Yet sadly marginalization of this scholar his family friends students and anyone who assists or associates with him goes on unabated.

The only reason I am making this specific known and easily proveable comparison is that, judging by what this editor has said, who openly represents the views of the leadership, No one should be under ANY illusion whatsoever of what can be expected, and the challenges ahead for Alnaz Jiwa, Nagib Tajdin, their families and friends and anyone who agrees with them.

I sincerely hope and pray I am wrong that any such marginalization by Ismailies of their brothers and sisters against the wishes of Hazar Imam , will take place or will be allowed going forward. Let us all pray for more unity.
Ya Ali Madad

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