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Defenses Glorifying the Aga Khan filed in federal Court - 2010-04-29

Date: 
Thursday, 2010, April 29
Location: 
Source: 
Heritage News
20100429-court-filings.jpg

In a surprisingly rapid twist of events, both Mr Tajdin and Mr Jiwa have filed their respective statements of Defense this 29th of April 2010. They affirm to being devoted followers who will unconditionally abide by the wishes of the Aga Khan, whom they glorify in their defense.

Mr Tajdin declares that:

He has not been served yet but the ethics imposed upon him by his faith demands that he should not keep in ignorance the public by being silent on the issue and should clarify all of the facts, pertaining to this lawsuit, of which he is aware.

He reaffirms his allegiance to the Aga Khan, is willing to submit to any of his wishes, and is ready to surrender himself and all his possessions to the Imam.

He has been printing Farman books since 1992 with approval and instructions from the Imam received on August 15, 1992 in Montreal.

He has not received any communication from the Imam from 1992 to 2009 instructing him to stop publication.

He cannot stop publication without instruction from the Imam as this would be a breach of his oath of allegiance to the Imam.

All Farman publications were financial deficit projects done as a volunteer service and large numbers of books were distributed free of charge.

Farman sharing is a historic Ismaili tradition which still continues today.

The current Ismaili Constitution does not restrict the right to publish Farmans

Mr Tajdin concludes that:

He has no choice but to await further direct instructions from the Imam.

He reaffirms his allegiance to the Aga Khan, is willing to submit to any of His wishes, and is ready to surrender himself and all his possessions to the Imam.

Mr Jiwa states that:

"This action does not appear to have been authorized personally by the Aga Khan .."

"In distributing Farman books obtained from Tajdin to other Ismailis, he has not violated either the Ismaili Constitution or any Farmans"

He has not violated the copyright act as "Tajdin was given express authority by the Imam" and regardless of the fact that "the limitations period provided for by the Copyright Act also bars this action as the books containing the Farmans were commenced publication in the year 1992", he will still do whatever the Imam tells him to do.

Mr Jiwa clarifies finances:

He "obtains these books for C$50.00 from Tajdin and sells it for C$50.00, without any profit.

"All monies received by him from the sale of (other) books after 2005 were delivered to the Jamatkhanas"

Mr Jiwa further states that:

"If the Imam edited the Farman before releasing to the Jamats, in effect he is superceding the Farman he made orally previously."

He "unconditionally reconfirms his oath of allegiance to his Imam" and "if the Imam does not desire his Farman books to be distributed to the Jamats (...) this defendant will submit to the instructions of His Imam without reservation whatsoever"

Replies From the Plaintiff are due within 10 days, and Affidavits of Documents are due 30 days later.

[Update from May 6: Ogilvy Renault, the law firm which launched the case has asked for an extension of 15 days to reply to the Defense. They claim delays due to breakdown of email servers, blackberry communication, travel of senior lawyer, time difference with Paris etc...The more delays in this file, the more damage it creates to the reputation of the Ismaili community, the Imam and the defendants. It is to the advantage of all parties that this case be withdrawn from the courts.]

[Update from June 22: Defendants have filed a Motion for summary Judgement to have the case dismissed.]

[Update from September 5:
Online Book that gathers court materials as well as articles that are currently available for the ongoing 2010 Lawsuit:

Copyright Lawsuit 2010: Online Book of All available Materials
News on cross-examinations:
Copyright Lawsuit: CROSS_EXAMINATIONS Table of Contents - 2010-09-04
Latest Development
Copyright Lawsuit: Imam Appears for Discovery and Ends the Case - 2010-10-15
As users are asking to read the letters from Nagib and Alnaz on the court docket, the latest have been attached on the following link:
A. Various Court Filings

Revised Factums have been posted Here:
2010-11-29 Summary Judgment : Plaintiffs Revised Combined Factums of Reply and of Motion
2010-11-29 Summary Judgment: Defendants' Revised Factums of Motion and of Reply

There has been proven fraud in the recent past in the Aga Khan's domain by the Aga Khan's agents:
Aga Khan Lawsuit: Fraud at Aga Khan Studs - 2000-02-22

2011-05-25: A Jamati Member who has never met the Defendants volunteered as his brotherly duty to pay the $30,000 that was demanded in the Plaintiff''s submissions and that was accordingly ordered by the judge.
Read the full details of the $30,000 payment directly to H.H. The Aga Khan.

2011-06-16: The Appeal Memorandum of Fact and Law against the Summary Judgment has been filed in court by the defendants on June 16th, 2011.
Read the Full Appeal Memorandum of Fact and Law

Link to Court Docket Case T-514-10
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-60-11
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-59-11
Link to Court Docket Appeal A-156-13

Latest News Comments

AttachmentSize
Tajdin Defence Apr 29.10.pdf491.02 KB
Jiwa AK Defence Apr 29.10.pdf543.82 KB

Comments

There are many holes in the

There are many holes in the verdict. Maybe we'll make a list of inferences, suppositions, assumptions, inventions, imaginations and hearsay. A proper judgment has to be based on laws and facts and a sound analysis of the facts. A Judge should not try to play guessing games.

That would be most helpful

That would be most helpful in this judgment for those interested and going forward . Thank you.

Excellent Judgment

Maybe because many are contemplating including SS, MM, AB, AK, Leaders, Alnaz and Nagib too. Maybe also because there is dialogue behind the scenes. Maybe also the legal formalities and processes are ongoing

The judgment is very clea. The Judge says he did not have expert evidence before him regarding the significance of that Mehmani (and mehmani generally) : Therefore the judge decided on the evidence before him and on a balance of probalilities of the evidence before him whch he admits was insufficient; "....As mentioned earlier we are in the realm of civil law, NOT RELIGION. NO EXPECT EVIDENCE HAS BEEN FILED AS TO the significance of ceremonial gestures (MEHMANI) . GIVEN THE ORDINARY MEANING OF THE WORDS USED in the exchange between His Highness the Aga Khan and Mr. Alibhay, I simply cannot find that the Aga Khan gave his consent to Mr. Tadjin’s endeavours.

Defendants should accept this and move on

@ sadrudin. ... As HH was the plaintiff, he has already got the copy of the judgment through his lawyers.

Issue is Defendants are Satisfied! with the outcome

YAM.
Issue is not the plaintiff is HI! Issue is in physical world HE is informed. If there is slightest doubt defendants that HI in physical world is not informed or aware about it then defendants can unload their doubt by writing to HI through council as mentioned in our constitution and unload their selves and move on!!! and sleep well that they did their the best to accomplish their goals.

As HI all the time says important is not win but one need to see the interest of JAMAT as a whole and everyone come out as winner.

Obviously Imam knows the

Obviously Imam knows the final outcome of the case, including if defendants will or not appeal the latest judgment. Anyone who doubt this has to be out of his mind.

The judgment is based on suppositions, imagination, hearsay, assumptions and inferences, not on facts or on laws. Nor especially on what the Imam wanted and said in October or in 1992.

Excellent point . I agree .

Excellent point . I agree . Move on . allahu alim.

@Bloglaw

Ya Ali Madad. I also do hope and pray everyone will work together going forward as directed by Our Beloved Hazar Imam, as per His discussions on October 15, 2010, with them. Inshallah. Thank You.

We will and should all work

We will and should all work together to assist and ensure going forward. So will the leadership. Yasmin, Imam knows and knows best.

A Win Win for ALL

I hope everyone will see that this ruling is a win win for everyone including most murids for whom Mehmani is foundational and not just a symbolic event

My reason why this is a win win for all is as follows;

If expert evidence had been submitted by any party regardng Mehmani as being secularly explained and clarified in the nature of a covenant and of its santity and significance in the murid and murshid context, then the Judge would have ruled differently. The following sentence is critical in coming to his conclusions and ruling;

".As mentioned earlier we are in the realm of civil law, not religion. No expert evidence has been filed as to the significance of ceremonial gestures. Given the ordinary meaning of the words used in the exchange between His Highness the Aga Khan and Mr. Alibhay, I simply cannot find that the Aga Khan gave his consent to Mr. Tadjin’s endeavours... "

Therefore the santity of Mehmani is preserved and respected by the Judge (even secularly speaking). Since the Judge has therefore given respect to mehmani by explaining the basis of his ruling and conclusions which are summariised in his sentence above, I hope and pray that this lawsuit will end.

There are many widening gaps highlighted and debated which the leaders are aware of and which MHI will address with the support of the Leaders and members of the Jamat. I also have not doubt as do Alnaz and Nagib that MHI will meet them again.

Sanctity of Mehmani versus Imam's Fairness?

If the Sanctity of Mehmani is preserved and if Imam's words have precious meaning for Murids, then you are saying that Hazar Imam did give consent... then how is "Infringement" a Fair result?

Hazar Imam consented and gave an order to an action when he said, with His Mubarak Hand on the KIZ volume 1: "continue what you are doing, succeed in what you are doing..."

A murid who obeyed the Imam's words in Mehmani is now condemned in the eyes of civil Law, and openly maligned in Jamatkhanas... How does that promote love and obedience for Imam? Can this be what Hazar Imam wants?

My impression is that Mr Sachedina just got a secular judge to overrule our Holy Imam. The Future looks bleak.

Yes I am saying MHI gave

Yes I am saying MHI gave consent in that Mehmani and if there was evidence before the judge in the form of expert evidence from ismaili scholars and other ismailies regarding Mehmani in secular terms and in detail then the judge would have given a different ruling.

That does not mean the judgement given is wrong. It is just that evidence was insufficient and the judge made a finding of fact based on the evidence before him.

That does not also mean that Dr SS has succeeded conclusively either and people reading his affidavit and cross examination will know too.

Dr SS has much to answer for in his leadership and the filing and handling of this lawsuit and much more. I think also Dr SS MM and leaders are aware and have realised.

I feel certain Imam knew, knows best and wanted to preserve the sanctity of Mehmani. And So it is, and this is very clear from the explanation given by the Judge.

summary judgement

@ brother bloglow

I say Ameen .and I agree with your comment, observations and hopes # 1 - # 6
My prayers for a peaceful conclusion for all.
As well as shukhar Alhamdullilah for lessons learnt.

Allahu Alim.

Any comment from the two

Any comment from the two defendants after today's judgment?

"Authorization of Farman Book"

Ya Ali Madad. Does the judge know that the Farman Book has been halted? Or, does he think that the defendants are still distributing the Farman Book? The judge's note: The Copyright Act: (28) As aforesaid......."Although Section 13(4) of the Act provides that an assignment or grant must be in writing, "mere permission may be given orally," or even implied by the conduct of the Author." If I am not wrong, on Oct. 15, 2010, Hazar Imam did confirm about the "Mehmani incident". Thank You.

You are right, according to

You are right, according to Alnaz and Nagib, Imam confirmed that he instructed during the Mehmani. But the Judge can not understand the Mehmani. It is a religious concept that does not exist in the Western traditional religions.

Both have confirm to us what happened during the 15 October meeting, The judgment says there was infringement. Hazar Imam said the opposite. The judgment says there was no consent in Mehmani 1992, Hazar Imam said the opposite. The judgment says $30,000, Hazar Imam said no cost.

But the best thing that happened in that meeting was that Hazar Imam Himself proposed to give to Alnaz and Nagib all His annotated Farmans if they wanted them, to meet them again and to work together so they are well ahead of any judgment and any Public Relation problems. Isn't this what count the most?

oct 15th ..what exactly happened.

Can we request Defendants toplease share with us the Transcripts of 15th October in entirety , so we can compare the differences between what Imam-e-Zaman wished /directed them and the Leaders present to resolve and accomplish versus what the Judgement is ? Thank You . Allahu Alim.

See the Discovery News Page

About the full transcript, the court reporter 'opted' not to record the full half hour. Nagib commented that:

"In fact the Court Recorder is supposed to note down who is in the room [she did not], what time the proceedings went off-record etc… she did nothing of this. She was supposed to confirm the transcripts with me before releasing, she released to Gray first, I was not even given her email or contact or name by Gray up to the time Gray released the transcript. There was quite a manipulation of the records, so Prothonotary Tabib ruled in a Case Conference that no evidence from Discovery can be entered by either party except by going in a new full Motion."

Read more about the discovery here:
What actually happened on Oct 15?

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Full Transcripts of 15 october

1] were "off-record" discussions not recorded at all ? usually the are transcribed but not part of Official Transcript.
2] Although not part of the official "on-record" transcript, can you post the "off-record" portion , so we may see what
Imam-e-Zaman discussed / directed to defendants and leaders , and compare it to final judgement.
In a way , that was Imam-e-Zaman's Firman ... to be shared with Jamats ..
Thank you . Allahu Alim

Transcript manipulation

We also tried to obtain this.

And that's the concern: the court reporter did not follow protocol. Did not note the times of when she went off record, and did not record or transcribe anything when Gray told her to go off-record.

The reporter should be assigned randomly by the company, but Gray called this particular one on her cell phone while she was at an art gallery to hire her.

Whatever happened to the transcript in the week after Oct 15 when Gray refused to give the defendants the contact of the reporter, until a week later when Gray posted the transcript on the court docket is lost forever. The company has no record of it.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

@Umed

Ya Ali Madad. Your third para. I fully agree with it. Thank You.

Summary Judgment and Reasons for Judgment

The PDF text of the Judgment and Reasons for Judgment are placed on the Online Book for the Aga Khan Copyright Lawsuit:

PDF's of Judment are in the online book, here

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Full text of Judgment [27

Full text of Judgment [27 pages] will be posted here in few hours.

It will be to each of us to decide if the Judge understood what is the Imam, what is a Mehmani and what the Farmans are.

It will be to each of us to decide if in reality Hazar Imam won or Sachedina won.

Summary Judgements

According to the case log, the judgments have been made on the 3 summary judgment motions. Any word on those?

Interlocutory Injunction

This means, the case going for trial. In meantime, defendants for now cannot distribute Golden Jubilee Edition of firmans (which I thought on Imam's wish they halted it effective Oct 15, 2010).

I am wrong

I read the judgement. Isn't judgment identical to what was concluded on Oct 15th, 2010?

What Gray wanted it, he didn't get it!!!!!!!!!! What a waste of money and creating disturbance in JK

"No Distribution of Farman Book"

Ya Ali Madad Sadrudin. Your first para. Exactly. Your second para. What a waste of money and creating disturbance in the JK. Thank You.

No the judgment is exactly

No the judgment is exactly opposite of what was concluded by Hazar Imam on October 15th, 2010.

The judgment says there was no consent in 1992 Mehmani. If the judgment is accepted, there will be no trial. If it is not accepted, there will be appeal. lets wait to see what happens next.

The interesting question is as follow: If you know the judgment goes against what Hazar Imam said,

1) Would you oppose it with an appeal by saying maybe the Imam wants us to continue fighting for Him?
2) Would you just say, let the Imam take care since it is His battle, let Him fight it for us?

No the judgment is exactly

The end of the battle on copyright will now likely move to an internal hearing according to the Ismaili constitution on various claims of forgery that the defendants levelled against the trusted aides of the Aga Khan and for bringing disrepute and chaos to the community.

source:vancouverite.com

i really would not worry on

i really would not worry on what a tabloid says, it is knows to be one sided and having more emotional comments then rational comments.

defendants only can appeal - no trial

The case has taken the turn that defendants only have the option to appeal the order; defendants cannot get the trial until appellate court determine the lower court made an error or defendants have new evidence that show that certain favorable evidences to defendants were not available at the time of hearing.

New evidence not admissible in Appeal

New evidence can not be presented at the Appeal but if there are questions of Law, they can be brought forward.

So Defendants, if they go to Appeal, will have to show that there were errors in Law in the Judgment. Normally 3 Judges seat on Appeal and their decision can reverse the judgment of the lower Court.

Are Leaders One sided ?

PanjeBhai in Vancouverite says : Bloglaw: You’re absolutely correct when you say “Arguing an issue legally is not looking at it from only one side or one sentence or two. You need to consider all the facts and evidence”. …Should we now take it take that you will:

1. not use arguments based on Nagib’s ever changing stories, including those that are not in the official transcript of Oct 15th. If NT/AJ want others to seriously consider what they claims occurred, get them to produce a sworn affidavit (just like HH did). Remind them of perjury laws and associated criminal implications.
2. immediately desist comments/arguments in public forums, and use the prescribed Institutional channel, to address any/all grievances you have against the leadership, since HH (not His appointees) is the legally recognised plaintiff of record.
3. stop arguing that Alnaz was not contacted prior the lawsuit filing as being material. two points – (a) HH contacted NT prior to filing and those communications to NT were in the context of NT as the Principal, so onus was on NT as the leader of the infringing group to advise all (AJ and the Does). (b) Legal action is against those involved in production, promoting or distribution of HH’s works; AJ has admitted to distribution.

BLOGLAW REPLIED:
1 We have to use all information from all the sides which I do. This is according to Imam's guidance too. If the lawsuit proceeds what both parties have said on or off the record can and will be used in the lawsuit. All Parties are fully aware I think of any perjury or criminal implications.

2 When we have internal channels or platforms which are effective and Leaders welcome seeking and sharing of information, I am sure everyone will use them. What is the point of seeking if you get silence, or lawsuits as in this case, or effectively the same Leaders who are the ones who are biased and still look into your needs or concerns
.
3 Alnaz should have been contacted. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever why he was not contacted by Dr SS MM and any other Leaders involved before or after the lawsuit. In fact I am surprised both their immediate Families were also not contacted before the lawsuit was filed and the local Leadership or elders were not involved. The onus is totally on the leaders in question. Remember also secularly we are all treated as individuals, and the murshid and murid relationship is also individual first and then collective. The NCAB and ICAB also say they would do the same even when it comes to differences within families, matrimony etc.

Do you and the Leaders in question agree what I am saying if fair, reasonable and also in accordance with Imam's Guidance and our ethics generally.

WHY NO CONCILIATION ?

Many are interested to know how our National and International conciliation and Arbitration Boards work. The UK Council has just issued latest guidelines which I have copy of entitled “making a difference – Resolving disputes together”
This Starts with the Quran 4:58 ;” ..and when you judge between man and man judge with justice..Allah sees and hears all things..”
The guidelines go on to say that “It has been a tradition in our Jamats to resolve disputes amicably through the intervention of elders of the Jamat… Imams have established institutions that took on this role……This approach is in keeping with the principles of disputes resolution in the Holy Quran, in the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (PBUH), in the teachings of Hazrat Ali. & Imam Jafar Al Sadiq, as well as in the Farmans of the Imams. “
Drawing on the above MHI has established ICAB’s and NCAB’s world wide to resolve disputes amicably. Conciliation is for ALL members of Jamat (whether they are Leaders or not)
The NCAB guidelines add that they help the parties to reach a fair and equitable settlement by playing a proactive role. They will first contact and meet the parties promptly. As soon as the parties agree, the board will proceed to open a file, undertake a full fact finding, help the parties define all the issues and concerns, conciliate with impartiality, help generate options and alternatives which are fair and equitable to both parties.
These guidelines also quote he following Hadiths of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) and Hazrat Ali (PBUH) “ Be aware of suspicion ….do not search for faults in each other – be servants of Allah ….. No belief is like modesty ….no power is like forbearance and no support is more reliable than consultation..”

SO WHY WERE ANY NCAB OR ICAB NOT APPROACHED AND INVOLVED BY THE LEADERS (DR SS and MM) BEFORE THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED ?

WHY WAS THE ABOVE CONCILIATION PROCESS NOT CONSIDERED AND INITIATED BY DR SACHEDINA AND OR M MANJI AND OR OTHER LEADERS IN QUESTION?

WHAT WENT WRONG ON AND AFTER 15TH OCTOBER 2010. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT ALNAZ AND NAGIB ARE SAYING WERE THE DIRECTIONS OF MAWLANA HAZAR IMAM ?

WERE ANY NATIONAL (NCAB) OR THE INTERNATIONAL CHAIRPERSON (ICAB) CONSULTED REGARDING THE DIFFERENCES BEFORE OR AFTER THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED ?

WERE ANY LOCAL MUKHI SAHEBS OR ANY ELDERS CONSULTED TO ASSIST AND INTERVENE TO RESOLVE THE DIFFERENCES ?

IN NOT MEETING ALNAZ BEFORE THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED AND NOT MEETING ALNAZ AND NAGIB AFTER 15 OCTOBER 2010, THE LEADERS ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE ABOVE TRADITIONS, DIRECTIONS AND FARMANS OF HAZAR IMAM, HOLY QURAN, SUNNAH AND IMAMS FROM HAZRAT ALI (PEACE BE UPON THEM ALL)

FINALLY ARE THE PRINCIPLES OF CONCILIATION SET OUT BY OUR IMAMS AND OUR INSTITUTIONS BEING FOLLOWED AND OBSERVED BY THE LEADERS IN QUESTION ?

I hope and pray that this lawsuit and the differences will be resolved and the case concluded soon. Ameen

Where is the Wisdom in ?

Editor of Vancouverite says Bloglaw : “…If you accept that there is more wisdom than yours – right at the very top and if you accept the dominant doctrine – then you’d have to accept the choices that are made. If you don’t, then your dispute is with the very top of the leadership triangle. You’re questioning the wisdom of the decision-maker and that is what most people disagree with …”

bloglaw Replies
Editor. You and everyone are right that I am questioning the actions, reactions and decisions of the top leaders, who are Dr SS, MM, AB (and others who maybe closely involved behind the scene) .

Where is the wisdom you refer to of the Leaders in question in not following Imams Farmans Directions or guidance to the letter and the spirit.

I am convinced that Leaders in question particularly Dr SS and MM, are central to the issues and this lawsuit
Imam has blessed us with Farmans, Directions and Guidance. I am also convinced that Leaders in question are not following and also not sharing or allowing them to be shared The case is about serious issues arising from not sharing of Farmans with and between Ismailies. Copyright has never been questioned..
So, this case is about not following Imams farmans in resolving all disputes and differences by dialogue and discussion which is not being followed. I have not read any Farman which has changed Imams earlier Farmans on these matters. If there is I request Dr SS and MM to provide the Jamat and you Editor, with Farmans/Directions and guidance which Imam has made which says his earlier Farmans Guidance or directions should not be followed by Dr SS and MM, including recommending a lawsuit against Alnaz without first having a meeting with him in accordance with Imam’s Farmans and guidance. And not meeting them after 15 October 2010, etc.

I do not believe Imam would have given 30 minuites on 15th Oct to Alnaz and Nagib if they were wrong. I believe Dr SS and MM are not sharing and following Imams Farmans guidance and directions in this case specifically and generally regarding issues highlighted since 6th April 2010..

Imams do not go against Imam’s own Farmans Guidance and directions, unless Imams replace them with other guidance. In this case Imam has not, regarding conciliation, regarding sharing of Farmans and regarding encouraging questions and regarding seeking of information and knowledge, and regarding Farmans being available in all JK’s globally, to name a few.

Therefore the essence of my disagreement , my seeking answers and suggesting solutions is with and from the Leaders in question. I have also looked at the latest guidelines on conciliation, which heritage posted and you have decided not to (see above). I know you and some of the Leaders including SS and MM are reading these comments too. I hope others and the Noorani Family are also reading them from time to time.

Institutions are made of people.

The Institutions can function effectively only and only if the "people" who are the members of that body are honest and sincere in their duty and qualified to do that particular task.
Education is a key to the effective functionality.
Most of the time selected members are appointed by influence and "who knows whom" methodology.
CAB has lost credibility because inedequately qualified and unwise are often appointed, as aresult the "confidentiality" factor is not honored and jamat loses the trust in its members as a result the Institution becomes discredited

So no matter how sound the laid down guidelines and principles are there for councils and CAB if their top leaders do not implement them how can regular jamat trust them?

CAB is like a "name sake" body whose leader once a year stands up in Jk and gives a boring well articulated report without any effect on the jamat
If you ask one simple Q they are lost.
They will give a favorite answer" MHI wants this"
So you shut up!

@Bloglaw

Ya Ali Madad Bloglaw. You are absolutely right. Bloglaw I had the same question to ask "why was this matter not resolved internally by various Boards, before it went to Courts"? Thank You.

The Answer to your Question!

For me the answer to your question is obvious: The reason for the lawsuit is not copyright. Actually Alnaz or myself have never said in any Court document that we do not agree that Imam has copyright.

In fact I pleaded in December that the Imam's copyright on Farmans is even stronger in our faith than what the Canadian law says. By virtue of being the Bearer of the Noor, the Imam of The Time has copyright not only on His Farmans but on all Farmans made by previous Imam as the Farmans of previous Imams are His owns. But He has the right to allow anyone He chooses, to publish His Farmans whichever Century He made them. And He has the right to say that all Ismailis can and should distribute His Farmans to all Ismailis.

So what is the reason of this lawsuit? For one, we know that there were threats preceding the Lawsuit, these threats were that I will be discredited in the Jamat Worldwide. [Nothing to do with publishing Farmans, the book was just an excuse] Why is it so crucial for these people to discredit me. Is it because there is something I know that they do not want me to say? And when I say it they want everyone to disbelieve me?

How would this be done beside announcements in JK? In December, Gray was asked by the Judge what really he was trying to achieve and he said he is seeking to get a condemnation of infringement against me from the Court, something he said the Imam can not achieve by making a Farman. And when asked by the Judge how much money the plaintiff wanted from me, he gave a detailed account of about $30,000.

This is the same Gray who told me and Alnaz on October 15th 2010 that the Imam had specifically instructed that there should not be any cost asked from us. By saying that the Imam wanted $30,000 from us, all true Ismailis will agree that Gray has insulted the Imam. They would also agree that if Gray is disobeying instructions directly given to him by the Imam, he certainly can not be seen as representing the views of the Imam. And this is not only for the money. The same goes for the concept of "infringement" and many other demands put forth by this lawyer. Demands completely in line with SS demands, and completely out of line with Imam's instructions.

MM has tried to force the Imam to ask me to close this web site and the Imam has refused saying He was not familiar with any issue with this web site. Again the same question: Why this fear of this web site? How much is MM involved? Why did he bring this subject at the Discovery when the case was for the Book, not for the web-site. What was MM doing in the meeting room? Gray said he chose to bring MM. [Not the Imam]. MM is not officially party to the lawsuit, so?

Well regardless of what happens in the lawsuit, there is something bigger going on. In due time, I will put it here. And this is what our Imam has protected when he protected this web site against the demands of MM on October 15th.

Remember Wikileaks. Nobody knew. Now Everybody knows. The Power of Information!

Nagib

Would any plaintiff do this?

If the damages asked by Plaintiff were only $30,000, the attorney fees itself I am sure by now is over $50,000
Since it is one of the top law firm of Canada and travel expenses of other lawyer from Paris etc.
Who would incur 50k to recover 30k?
No one can be 100 percent sure of winning!
If MHI advised not to ask for any damages how can anyone justify that MHI is the real plaintiff?
The math does not work.

SS was speculating that the very name of lawsuit will make defendants come running to his feet which did not happen.
Wasting Imam's money SS and his generations will payback till eternity!!!

"Lawyer's Fees and Expenses"

Ya Ali Madad. Who is going to pay Gray's fees and expenses? Will the Jamat pay? Thank You.

@Nagib re: above post of Jan. 8th

786
Thank you for sharing so much precious, priceless information with us, Nagib. May Mowla Bapa continue to protect you and may you always do His will. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

Leaders and others reading

Leaders and others reading this should and will hopefully send these to their leaders to ask and explain. thanks for sharing.

"We need a Change"

Ya Ali Madad. I have said this before many times, "we need a change" in our community, and it's the job of our leaders. More commitments, more communication, etc. in an "honest" way. Nobody is attacking the leaders, but asking them "for a change".

In any kind of professional/commercial corporation or religious communities, people do ask for "changes/improvements", that does not mean that they are attacking leaders/management, etc. These leaders should sit down with groups and discuss, just don't say "whatever we are doing is right", this is "dictatorship".

I think younger generation (not friends and relatives of leaders), should be given positions, there are lots of them who are very intelligent, because "they are the future leaders" and I am sure they will not accept what's going on now. Thank You.

We now have this forum and

We now have this forum and the vancouverite which we never had. This is one change. Leaders in question have tried and want these shut down and want to take it off line- one of the SS mantras concerned has quoted to control. The Editor of vancouverite even wants to stop anone directly or indirectly questioning the leadership or seeking information. Leaders don't share. And SS we know will do everything to maintain control and the status quo.

So we must not expect change overnight and we must seek and share information with our leaders too

Revolt

I remember reading somewhere about Mawlana Sultan Mohamed Shah saying to leaders that if they do not give up their seats and keep appointing young jamati members there will be revolt?

Anyone recall this? I might have read it on Ilm-net postings.

Re:-"We need a Change"

Agreed 100% when you say:""we need a change" "whatever we are doing is right",These leaders should sit down with groups and discuss, just don't say "whatever we are doing is right", this is "dictatorship".
and "I think younger generation (not friends and relatives of leaders), should be given positions," Yasmin, we have seen years after years this things happening in our Jamat " Its not what you know, its who you know to get the position", But! then this is just a begining, Insha'allah Things will change and Alhumdo'llilah "CHANGE WILL COME FOR GOOD OF THE JAMAT AROUND THE GLOBE SOON VERY SOON BY THE GRACE OF OUR BELOVED HAZAR IMAM."Ameen.

Judge Jury & Executioner !

Editor of Vancouverite says he is " ......suggesting to you (LEADERS) that people who are from our faith who indirectly or directly are suggesting that our leadership at the highest level is concealing a forgery and that a forgery did happen need to be treated as hostile. Deal with them expeditiously and decisively. ... This will not end regardless of how the court rules. This is guerrilla warfare against our leadership from within our faith. - Salim Jiwa.""

Reply by bloglaw

Editor – I agree Leaders should collectively meet to be updated and consider the way forward. They must also bear in mind the the law of the land. Then Leaders should give an incisive report and recommendations to MHI for guidance. Leaders and you as a responsible Journalist should not be, and seen to be judge jury and executioner.

I agree Leaders should also share with and inform the Jamat and respond may be through your forum, or announcements.

I don't agree with you that anyone suggesting or informing our leadership of any wrongdoing should be treated as hostile. In fact they should all be welcomed and the matter fully investigated.

We must all free free to seek information and share information with our Leaders. This is a part of our ethics, our faith and Imam wishes and encourage us to do so. You are sadly saying exactly the opposite and recommending the opposite.

My My Mr Editor. As you know the challenge is whether Imam's directions are and will be followed to the letter and spirit by in this case Dr SS and MM ?

To seek is to be hostile?

This Editor is expressing the views of leaders and suprisingly agrees with them.

So Leaders want to silence anyone. who even makes any suggestions against them, by treating them as hostile. So to them to seek information id to be hostile.

Is this not how the Jamat and local leaders are treated when they share or seek answers, information or farmans. Is this not what we are all doing ? and what Nagib and Alnaz were doing and are doing now through the courts. For example Seeking clarification on the directions of Hazar Imam on 15th October 2010 ?

So Dr SS and MM, are saying through the Editor, that they do not want anyone (Murids-Leaders?) to make any suggestions against them ? If they do they are hostile ?

So Mr Editor, If anyone dares, they are hostile, and so get rid of them, and if they happen to be a leader to appoint a yes robot :) ? Now to take it further if this continues for 15 years what will you have then :) ??

If the Editor is not giving the views of the leaders in question, then he as a journalist he is going against by not advocating freedom of the press, and freedom of expression. That cant be right, right Mr Editor

The Editor is now joining a community newspaper chain - I extend my Best wishes (NO I dont know which and I hope it is not owned by the Leaders in question directly or indirectly. I wont be surprised :)

My MY Mr Editor - What next ?

@Bloglaw

Ya Ali Madad. It is "pathetic", in this century. Even in our community, which is known as "progressive" community. This is just like the regime of "Saddam Hussein's Iraq", when non-one had a voice. Control!!!!!! Thank You.

Some responses developed and

Some responses developed and used by SS MM and some top leaders to stifle enquiry debate and maintain the status quo:

1 Bapa has personally said so
2. take this off line -one to one
3 very confidential and secret don’t share even with your family
4. very sensitive
5. yes we will - and 10 years later – yes we will?

This will now change and we must thank Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz Jiwa. It is high time and may Mawla guide and protect us Ameen

Why is the Imam NOT supporting SS?

Initially I was I was stunned and in disbelief that AJ and NT had the galls to publicly make allegations of fraud against the Imam's right hand man, appointed directly by him. Then I became very angry at AJ and NT after I heard about the lawsuit and the announcement in April concerning the letters by the Imam and Prince Amyn.

When the Imam came to Toronto in May of 2010, I was confident that the Imam would publicly express to the world that he had full confidence in his right hand man (SS) and that he (SS) and the lawyer and his assistant of Boston had not committed any fraud. I expected the Imam's statement (even without condemning the two) would embarrass these two idiots (and their friends) and their case would fall, and we would move on. Of course, I was hoping that in that public announcement the Imam would remove these two from our jamats.

But we all know, the Imam came and went without one word of support for SS, his right hand man. Also I note that the Imam did not tell the jamats by any farman, Talika, or anything from the Imam to publicly express his support for SS.

I was so stunned that for days I could not think straight. A non-Ismaili co-worker whom I explained my conundrum told me that the silence meant that he (the Imam) did not support his right hand man because the right hand man did do the wrong as alleged. He said that if such serious allegations of fraud are made in a public forum (court and internet), any leader (manager, president, whoever) would be obliged to issue public statements of support. He reminded me (embarrassing me because I do follow politics) that Harper and other such leaders do that all the time - come to the minister's aid by expressing confidence. He in fact told me that he was surprised as to why I could not see it myself and that he had to explain this simple point to me.

That conversation led me to rethink my stand, I went back and read everything printed on the internet sites by these two and also the documents filed by them which (I am sorry to say I did not do so earlier and blindly believed). The cross examination of SS (which if anyone has not done so will regret on the day of judgment) opened my eyes and I instantly knew why our Imam has not supported SS.

I ask all of you today, including the vancouverite.com followers: if one of your siblings publicly said that you forged your father's signature when you did not, would you expect your father to defend you, and help clear your name?

Notably, IF AJ and NT were wrong, I can bet that the Imam would make sure that his comments were on the record to support SS and to show that AJ and NT were wrong. Also the court record of 15th simply says that NT will not maintain allegations of fraud on HH's staff (not officers, SS is not on his staff, see his own cross-examination transcript.) But if they were wrong, why no similar comments by AJ? And no apology to SS who was sitting there by NT or Aj?

I am feeling so bad that I had bad mouthed these two people for many months, and hope to meet them sometime to seek their forgiveness.

But it leaves one unanswered question which I have not seen raised by anyone.

IF SS is the fraudulent guy, why has the Imam not publicly supported AJ and NT (he did in private off the record) and not taken public steps to support the two? I am not well read and not much knowledgeable about the Imam's actions and work? Can some of our readers give comments and explain me why would the Imam not publicly support these two? There must be a reason? But what? (People with opposite views than mine, that SS did not commit the fraud, then the question would become - why is the Imam not supporting him publicly?)

I now strongly feel that Aj and NT are right. But why are they still suffering? This is my new conundrum.

@Conundrum re: Jan. 6th post -- Mubaraki to you!

786
Better late than never, dear brother in faith! It is very decent, courageous, and honest of you to make this public confession (that you had never read any of the court documents but still spoke badly of Nagib and Alnaz). Mubaraki to you for coming to the truth!

Many people are still speaking badly of them, alas, and cannot take the trouble to educate themselves by reading the court documents and thus form an informed opinion...It is so sad. That they lack religious knowledge (to the point that they believe blindly the leaders who tell the jamat that it is Hazer Imam who is suing) is one thing (and that is an awfully sad thing too), but that they post comments without even knowing what they are writing!!! Let us pray that all be given a chance to understand their error...
Again, mubaraki to you! Ya Aly madad.

Dr SS has allowed his wordly

Dr SS has allowed his wordly ego and self interest to motivate and take a leading role in his mindset.Some say he is a volunteer and doing so much seva. Yes he has been blessed with financial success and as head of our institutions he effectively manages our institutional multi billion not for profit and for profit conglomerate which adds to giving him and his friends many wordly opportunities which they all enjoy and which most ismailies can only dream of.

MHI reminds us regularly to reflect and remember our human limitations and reminds leaders to serve the jamat selflessly as brothers and sisters. Imam reminds leaders often and has informed the jamat that leaders are not sharing on two occasions. Remember when Imam said so he meant on worldly matters too.

The reason why any leaders hold on to information and don't share that openly and selflessly is always, but always because of some or total self interest. So Leaders are therefore using their position to benefit themselves in many worldly ways, and those the choose to, and or not wanting others to benefit.

When you have such a culture which is driven by such self interest and mind set any change takes time. And at best very difficult and complex materially speaking.

MHI as leaders know, makes them reflect and seemingly agree with them rather than instruct and dictate to them, preferring to appeal to their intellect and their reason.

The above may be a clue to how Imam may drive change going forward having regard to all the wordly complexities.

I hope and pray that Leaders have been and are reflecting on Imams vision farmans guidance and blessings. Equally important they will act and react in the best interest of the Jamat Ameen

Imam is not constrained by our limited thinking

My two cents...

I as an Ismaili believe that Imam is above and beyond everything, including our limited intellect. So, with this belief I think we cannot and should not bind, judge, question or expect what Imam can or cannot do. He is free to do whatever he wishes in this world and the onus is on us to reconcile our faith to his actions and not the other way around.

There are many conflicts in this world where both sides are (partially) right and one cannot pick a side. We as humans can't deal with conflicts until they are resolved to our satisfaction, but remember the Divine is beyond such constraints and limitations.

On a more humanistic level, if two brothers are fighting for what they believe is right, how can father publicly pick a side?

I agree that We as brothers

I agree that We as brothers and sisters should seek advice and guidance from our parents and our Imam and our leaders. We are encouraged by our Imam and them to seek information clarification and knowledge. That is different from questioning or being judgemental. In dealing with conflicts and differences we must and have been guided to do so by dialogue by discussion by understanding and by arbitration with respect.

IMAM IS METICULOUS & NO DICTATOR

Nightmare in Vancouverite says : DO YOU KNOW BLOGLAW? “…AGA KHAN’s Letter to Nagib Tajdin (Jan 24, 2010); “Over some time now, I have viewed with concern the inappropriate and unauthorised private initiative of some spiritual children who print, publish and circulate in various forms the texts of Farmans attributed to me and also to my late grandfather, as well as Talikas and voice recordings. This is a serious and absolutely unacceptable breach of the Imam’s right and responsibility, established over many centuries, to safeguard the integrity of his communications to the Jamat, and which are conveyed in the context of the privileged relationship of the Imam with his murids.” “I, therefore, expect you, and the other murids who are working with you, immediately to take all the necessary measures to recall and to withdraw from circulation your recent publication and the accompanying mp3 device, and cease their printing and distribution. Also, I would like you to deliver all remaining stocks of these materials to the Institute of Ismaili Studies at 210, Euston Road, London NWI 2DA.” “This is a matter that I, like my predecessors as the Imams-of-Their-Time, have and continue to view with the greatest seriousness, and I hope that within 72 hours of your receiving this message, you will confirm to me directly, exceptionally, that you understand both the gravity of this matter, which already had an unfortunate precedent about which you were cautioned, and that it can be closed immediately and definitively.”
QUESTION B-L-O-G-L-A-W: Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz Jiwa have steadfastly held that the above IMAMAT Communication is forged. Bloglaw, do you too believe what NT and AJ have been drumming since April 2010? “Yes” or “No”.
BLOGLAW REPLIES
Nightmare; If you read Imam’s Farmans and speeches, and have heard or spoken to Dr SS, you will have more questions then you do. Nagib does not believe this letter was written or signed by MHI.
Let us look more closely at the letter, and the questions;

1 Why would Imam write to Nagib and refer to “some” murids and say they are all publishing “various forms of texts” and not say you have published this book of Farmans which I have not authorised and it is my wish that you should stop etc. Has Dr SS informed Imam, or is aware of other Murids and if so why is the letter not addressed to other murids too including especially to Alnaz for example. Dr SS (&MM) knew he was involved but chose not to contact him.
2 Why MHI would refer to his “Grand father” saying about printing of texts, books, various farmans also attributable to my late Great Grandfather. This book does not have Farmans of MSMS, nor is the lawsuit about Farmans of MSMS?. Is it possible that Dr SS has said there are other murids who are publising various forms of texts of Farmans, and if so who are they? and why no letter to them ?
3 The letter then says the Farmans are made to murids in a priviledged context and to preserve the integrity of Farmans. Why would Imam need to say this or do so. What information was Imam given by Dr SS (Remember according to Dr SS Imam only spoke to Dr SS and he thinks to MM directly. So we can conclude there was only one source of information to Imam (Dr SS)
4 Imam then says Imam wishes them to withdraw the RECENT publication from circulation and return remaining books to IIS (not ITREB). Why did not Imam refer to ALL publications since 1992. And add that all those murids who have printed books and print books should all stop too and name them ?
5 Why would then Imam say you must within 72 hour confirm “directly” to me and not give information of how to contact directly knowing all letters go through Dr SS who decides what letter go to the Imam or not. Dr SS of course knew any letter in and out will come through him.
6 The letter then says you were cautioned before. So Dr SS will have informed Imam Nagib was cautioned. Was Imam informed Alnaz was cautioned. Others cautioned ? if so who ? No letter to them ? In the past any caution will have been for earlier books not this one. No cautions on this book before or after by MHI. If cautioned on earlier books, why Imam wishes and talks about only the current book ? Imam we all agree is meticulous. Does this letter reflect that?
7 Imam then says within 72 hours all Imam wishes is to be informed directly exceptionally and personally that Nagib understand the gravity of the situation but not concluding the letter to say what precisely Imam wishes him to confirm beyond that. This is unlike a letter based on all the facts and information which Dr SS either failed to mention or did not know or want to know.
8 The letter is confrontational and dictatorial and autocratic , threatening in nature and content. That is not the nature of MHI. That we now know for sure is the nature of Dr SS and MM.
9 In light of the lawsuit and what we all know now and especially what Dr SS has personally said, and the forensic reports and leaders not following Imams directives or sharing and informing us, that letter raises more questions than gives answers. Especially instead of a 5 minutes meeting there was a 30 minute meeting and directions on 15th October 2010. We have 3 consents and no meetings to conclude as directed by MHI

These questions are not and should not be seen as questioning the Imam but questions arising from a letter and its contents based on information in the lawsuit, and primarily from the Leadership Dr SS (and secondly MM and AB)

Nizar Shivji – you are right 100% and you hit the nail on the head about leadership “…The Ismaili Muslims Institution and its leadership have failed to emerge as a driving force to know the right from the wrong. The internal issues of past 40 years have remained unsolved ”

The key question therefore “What is the solution to address the widening gap ? Should not the Leaders meet them and conclude thios case together.

Bloglaw says:" Especially

Bloglaw says:" Especially instead of a 5 minutes meeting there was a 30 minute meeting"

I guess the Imam gave reason to those saying that there was not one chance in a million that Nagib and Alnaz get 5 minutes meeting with the Imam.

True, they did not get 5 minutes ;-)

More Questions ?

Bloglaw is right, After the letter Dr SS said he spoke to Nagib Tajdin who said this letter is not and cannot be from our Imam. Mr Tajdin requested a meeting with Imam e Zaman. More questions;

Why did Dr SS and MM not meet with other leaders collectively and together to resolve this internally with Mr JIwa and Mr Tajdin before the lawsuit was filed.

Why did not Dr SS and MM meet the top leaders especially after the legal advice and related report was prepared to discuss and get their opinions for the report and its impact (If a report was prepared and presented to Imam e Zaman, and if so who prepared the report, and has Dr SS and MM shared this final report with the leaders ?)

Dr SS said he was the only one who discussed this matter and the lawsuit with MHI and he says he THINKS MHI spoke to MM. Why did he not find out and meet with at least heads of LIF, ITREB IIS and ICAB

Dr SS says he did not discuss this with institutional leaders before the lawsuit was filed and merely breifed them after the lawsuit was filed ? Why did Dr SS not do so ? MM institutionally reports to LIF and Dr SS. Why did not MM also not do so?

The letter and the circumstances raises more questions than answers or solutions..

We hope the Leaders and especially LIF will bring this matter up in their regular meetings or informally, and now intervene and most important share with the Jamat. and all leaders too.

From the meeting on 15

From the meeting on 15 October, I know that Hazar Imam never wrote this letter nor signed the Boston fake. I also believe Mrs Parkes did not do the forgery, she just emailed me the forged letter not knowing that it was forged.

I also know that according to the Imam, there was no infringement as far as the Golden Edition is concerned as I just followed His 1992 instruction to continue publishing. He confirmed that He remembered well the Mehmani of 1992 and the presentation of the Red book as he referred specifically to that book's presentation.

But since the IIS mention comes up, I can also say that Mowlana Hazar Imam never ever mentioned IIS during our meeting.

At some point during a case conference, Protonotary Tabib did an interesting remark, she said the Motions and the trial will not resolve anything. She is right. There is nothing from this case stopping others who are publishing, there is nothing stopping us re-printing all the previous 9 Farman books which we have published in the past and there is nothing stopping the other people who still publish in various languages such as French, Gujrati, English, Urdu, Farsi etc...

During the Motions hearing on December 8th 2010, the judge said that if the Imam wanted his Farmans not to be published or people not to buy the Golden Edition, it would have been easy for him to make a Farman or Talika to this effect. He also said the Imam could have signed an affidavit which he did not do.

And of course any intelligent person will understand that Alnaz who did not even know the Golden Edition was published up to after it was published was falsely accused without any warning, without even a courtesy call from anyone, be it SS, MM or Gray. And unless one believes that Imam would falsely accuse one of His Murid or that the Imam will strip Himself of his infallibility, nothing from the case is credible. It is time that this mockery of our Imam stops immediately.

@Nagib re: above post of Jan. 6th

786
Thank you so much for this input, Nagib. I have no doubt it will help those who never read any court documents (but still wrote senseless comments) to understand the truth a little bit.

Alnaz Jiwa

Ah!! my guess was right about the incident with A. Jiwa. When I read this, I said to myself it must be M. Kamadia.

I do not understand what's his problem???? He should practice what he preaches.

Patience and Tolerance

I have always supported Mr Tajdin and Mr Jiwa for their strong beliefs about publishing the Farmans. However I think on this instance Mr Jiwa should have ignored the people who tried to provoke him. Remember the hardship the Imams and Dais had to undergo for our faith. The people who are trying to judge them should also bear in mind that they shouldn't be judging these two murids. The Imam is there to judge all of us.

As per the Pirs Ginan:
Eji Kaam Krodh jena ghat mahein Jaher Jagya
Tene Jitya Jitya Daav Sarve Haarya.

SS andd MM should now be serious to end this matter as it is getting out of control and the leadership will be equally responsible for not being able to resolve this matter amicably.

There is no chance that Dr

There is no chance that Dr SS and MM will resolve this matter amicably, proactively or collaboratively. Let us hope other leaders will intervene and let us pray MHI personally intervenes.

If Alnaz was physically attacked, pushed around, or man handled, he should have reported this to the Volunteers and leaders, including the authorities in view of the earlier incident with Nagib by the same group/individuals and the death threats.

Report to authorities?

Are you suggesting that he wait till the gang removes his batrisi (32 teeth), then report them? I doubt that is a wise advise.

Life long pains with 32 (even 6 or 8) removed, or a broken jaw or hit back and fight off as he did. Yes he is now in trouble with the law (I note that the one who attacked NT in Ottawa has given evidence to the police against AJ).

I think that Heritage should poll:

What would one do between:

Option No 1: trouble with the law, get arrested for a few hours, even IF convicted (no jail time), even if he loses his license as opposed to life long pain (maybe with jaw injured he could not practice in any event); or

No 2: suffer a broken jaw, maybe 6/8 teeth gone, and life long pain and suffering.

Would you accept option no. 2?

Self defence

Option 1 of course if in self defence and especially as the same individuals group were involved in attacking and threatening earlier.

@Imran

I agree with you , However I think Mr Jiwa must ignore people who tries to provoke him in different Jamat Khanas in GTA, I also strongly beleive its the duty of our Jamati Leadership and the Mukhi/Kamadia Sahebs to see that such thing should not take place in Jamat Khanas as every Ismaili has a right to attend the Jamat Khanas and perform in all the Jamati ceremony and rituals like saying Dua with the Jamat, reciting Tasbih and bying Nandis etc. untill the Murid is expelled for some reason from the religion by Hazar Imam. I really feel sorry for Mr.Jiwa and his loving family as certain members of our Jamat and the leaders in our communtiy has made him like an evil member of our Ismaili Jamat, I pray that when so many projects of Hazar Imam is taking place in Canada and around the Globe we all Ismailis acts as brothers and sisters among each other in Jamat Khanas and out side with love, respect, tolerance and Unity with each other to please our beloved Hazar Imam. Ameen,

Need Calm

YAM.

Loosing tamper or getting angry and doing stuffs could weaken defendants' position.

Longer the court review means, court is having problem with the plaintiff request for summary judgment request, which means, the case is going to go for trial, that means more people are going to voice their opinions and going to go against defendants.

Believe me, people opinion

Believe me, peoples' opinion does not weight in the balance when Imam Himself has spoken. What will happen is what Imam wants, regardless of what is decided in Court.

When Imam meets again the defendants, it will put all the dissenting voices to rest.

@ librarian-umed

I agree with you when you say "peoples' opinion does not weight in the balance when Imam Himself has spoken. What will happen is what Imam wants, regardless of what is decided in Court" Yes! its true that the defedants has lost his cool, but then just think after all he is a humanbeing like all of us and not a saint or a sadhu, How long a person can hold his cool when he is not left alone in his own place of worship where he goes to practice his faith? I am very sad about the incident and the person who provoked the defendant to loose his cool in our holy place where every Ismaili goes to practice their faith everyday and our beloved Hazar Imam knows that very well what is going own with his Jamat and the people who are doing this act of evilness in the holy Jamat Khanas, May Mowla guide us and bless us all to live in peace and harmony among each other as a true Momeen and brothers and sisters, Ameen.

“Allah Hafez” OR “Khouda Hafez” = "May God Be Your Protector"

YAM, BLOGLAW! On all my blogs, I always start with greetings “YAM” which means Ya-Ali-Madad (t). I always end with “Allah Hafez” which means “May God be your Protector.” In Arabic, hifz means “protection.” The phrase is a loan word from Persian into Kurdish, Punjabi, Urdu in Pakistan, Hindi in India, and Bengali Languages. Some people prefer to say “Allah Hafez” at the time to see off someone. Mostly used by Urdu and Hindi speaking. “Allah” means God, and “Khouda” means God. The Persian word for God is “Allah Hafez”Courtesy: Wikipedia, CCORAF, and OWS. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

"True Spirit of Islam"

Ya Ali Madad. Rowonsadbarg (Tajikistan), Zeenatara and others, thank you for your comments. Nagib's family and Alnaz's family, are going through a very difficult time. They are our Spiritual Brothers and Sisters, and let us just pray for them, this is the "true spirit of Islam", the rest should be left in the hands of Our Beloved Hazar Imam, He will take care of the situation. Thank You. Khuda Hafiz.

Will Leaders never share?

Jenabai in Vancouverite a leader or proxy says : Bloglaw I feel sorry for you … Do you really believe that the Leaders should get engaged with such folks who have no respect for others? The Leaders will NEVER get involved in blogs. They KNOW what their responsibilities are. So if I don’t belong to this camp or the other camp, then I must be a proxy for the Leaders. Well you can say that again if that makes you happy. Leave them alone, please. They are not the Plaintiff, are there? Do you want me say Allah Hafez or Khuda Hafiz? Well take your pick.”

BLOGLAW REPLIES;

1 Yes Leaders should get involved in sharing information and facts with the Jamat and in the media (Blogs are the new media of today and tomorrow) Leaders must also make announcement for the the Jamat and issue directives to Mukhi & Kamadia's. These are a aprt of the outreach programs which has a budget running into millions of dollars as you know. Right ?

2 Who says we or Alnaz and Nagib have no respect for others ? That is frankly your and some of the leaders who you represent, which are baseless and unsubstantiated. If all of us agreed with your instructions and obeyed you without question, you will sing our praises and reward us ! right?

3 If as you say, Leaders know what their responsibilities are; then pray tell us why they are not following Imams Farmans directions and guidance on the issues specifically highlighted since 6 April 2010 and clearly by their own admissions (Dr SS)?

4 You are a leader or a proxy for Leaders because

a. you are generalizing, and NOT giving any reasoned or specific replies, but simply give instructions like the leaders, and;

b. You are also saying behalf of the leaders that they will NEVER get involved in Blogs (directly or indirectly ?). If so why are they doing so through you ? Why are you doing so ? Why did they do so before Oct 2010 ?

5 You repeatedly say we must leave the leaders alone because they are not the plaintiff – Pray tell us through whom (Leaders) are the directions and instructions now routed by MHI. Also are you telling us you know from Dr SS or MM or MHI, that Dr SS and MM are no longer involved in the lawsuit, and there is a new team of leaders who are involved in this lawsuit ? and if so why did Dr SS and MM, come on 15 Oct 2010 at the request of Gray - NOT at the request of Imam, the Court or the defendants ?

Jenabai; You can say Ya Al Madad to me and to all Ismailies. If you prefer you can also Allah Hafiz or Khuda Hafiz to me. Are you suggesting these two greetings specifically because you want to make some inference to Sunni Muslims or suggesting you are a Sunni, or you prefer that greeting, or we should no longer say Ya Ali Madad ? OR are you trying to insult our greeting ?

Where is the pluralism, respect and tolerance Jenabai ?

With Ya Ali Madad.

Well said, Yasmin!

Dear Sister Yasmin,
Your message is so true, so well expressed and your emotions are so touching. If only they would listen. But it seems they have deliberately put blinkers on their eyes and will not rest until they achieve their goal of annihilating Nagib and Alnaz. However we should have no doubt that Mowla will protect them and also soon put an end to this pagan and heathenish behavior, inshallah!

Re: Alnaz Jiwa

I still feel that Alnaz Jiwa's behaviour is not acceptable.
Violence is not accepted. With humility, lots can be accomplished.

I guess when you are

I guess when you are surrounded by a gang that you know is out to either beat you to death or damage you and one of them start beating you, it is very difficult to wait for the time all of them will join.

But you are right our Prophet Jesus said if they slap you on one cheek you should tell them to slap the other cheek so maybe Alnaz could have done this. [If he was a Christian]

Alnaz Jiwa

It seems now there is a growing concern that Alnaz should not have defended himself. Perhaps those who say that he shouldn't have, should try and put themselves in Alnaz's shoes.

From what I hear, Alnaz is a very quiet peaceful person. He goes to many J.K's and it was only at this J.K where M.Kamadia and his gang were verbally bullying him whilst he was standing in the Dua Karavi line, that this altercation took place. Apparently they were taunting Alnaz to leave the J.K,, pushing him and telling him they will "break his batrisi". Alnaz said, if you want to break my batrisi, lets go outside. They didn't go outside. Then again, after nandi was over, Alnaz was provoked again by the chamcho of the gang, punched at least 3 times on the shoulder, and it was then that Alnaz took the swing and left a mark on chamcho showing that he was not going to be intimidated by anyone anymore. The leader of the gang (M.Kamadia)who was standing right behind Alnaz then ran and called the police but he was not man-enough to face Alnaz one-on-one ! This is what I was told by those who were present when this incident took place.

Sad as it may be, this incident is an eye-opener for the leadership to wake up and be true to the oath that they have taken. Perhaps now local leadership will realize that they too have an obligation to fulfill their responsibilities as per the Constitution and not follow the higher leaders blindly.

"Hurting Our Beloved Hazar Imam"

Ya Ali Madad. Recent "sad" incidents took place because of this lawsuit. I have said this before, "THIS LAWSUIT IS BETWEEN OUR BELOVED HAZAR IMAM, NAGIB AND ALNAZ". It is about "publishing of Farmans. Nagib and Alnaz love their Imam.

On Oct. 15, 2010, Hazar Imam talked to these 2 Murids and discussed what to do next. Now, why should some members of the Jamat interfere with Hazar Imam's decisions? Did Hazar Imam want to punish these Murids? No. Did Hazar Imam attack them verbally? No. Did Hazar Imam want to ex-communicate them from the jamat? No. So, why should some of the jamat from other sites and elsewhere want actions taken against these 2 Murids? Are they better then Our Beloved Hazar Imam? These Ismailis have created "divisions" in our Jamat.

It's none of "our business" to be judges as to what should be done to these Murids. We are in one of the "progressive" countries in the world, and we should change our mentalities and not go back to those "dark ages". Leave these 2 Murids alone, and move on, Mowla is dealing with this issue.

Nagib and Alnaz are no making Hazar Imam unhappy, but it's these group of ismailis who are creating tension in the community, are making Hazar Imam unhappy.

At this time, we all should be united, and pray for these 2 Murids. Every religion teaches "love" for each other. Our Beloved Prophet Jesus Christ(peace be upon him) said: "Love thy neighbours, treat others the way you want to be treated".

It is said that, "when somebody falls down, pick them up, even if it is your enemy". Thank You.

@Yasmin

You write: It is about "publishing of Farmans. Nagib and Alnaz love their Imam

It looks like the judge at the 7/8 December Hearing in Toronto understood exactly the case like this as he said to Nagib about the Farmans, according to observers, that "you only wanted to spread the "Good Word" in your community."

In Christianity [The judge said he was Christian and could understand this], this expression is used about spreading the Word of God, the Gospels and the Bible.

"Kalam-E-Imam-E-Zaman" Golden Edition

Ya Ali Madad Umed. You are absolutely right. I have read Farmans from Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman, Golden Ediition, 1957-2009, and also heard extracts of Farmans made by Hazar Imam on the MP3. It's a "brilliant" job Nagib has done, especially MP3, a "kindergarten child" to "Jenabai, Kulsumbai and others" can hear Our Beloved Hazar Imam's voice, when he says in one of His Farmans, "When you smile, it makes me happy. Because in Islam a smile is a Blessing from Allah. Therefore, I wish that you smile in your life, that you find happiness", Singapore 2008. I really enjoyed listening and reading these Farmans, and I was "smiling". Thank you Nagib.

You mantioned it right. Many

You mentioned it right. Many of you live in "progressive" countries, but many luck the ethics and jump ahead the Judge to sentence. I think if you change the condition of the people a little bit, you will find no difference between them and theTaliban

Alnaz' action well-justified by Ismaili history

We have all read with dismay what has recently occurred at Unionville JK (Toronto) and would agree that restraint would have been the better way. However I would also like to remind all Ismailis that history shows that our Holy Prophets, Pirs, Dais and even Holy Imams have not shied away from action against intimidation when action was needed to boost the morale of the faithful.

Our Ismaili history is replete with such examples, whether it was Hazrat Daoud vs Goliath, Nabi Muhammad at Battle of Badr, Imam Husayn at Kerbala, Rashid-ud-din Sinan or Hassan bin Sabah or Pir Shams vs. Bahauddin Zakariyah etc etc.

Our brother Alnaz has always showed his Iman in action and not just words. During the time that this case has been launched, he has been threatened many times, taunted also and has shown restraint. During this incident at JK he was verbally and physically assaulted, etc. before he finally defended himself

I believe this time he showed this gang of goons and bullies that he also has the blood of his ancestor Fidais. Alnaz all alone was able to stand against these thugs. With one blow he made them run to the non-Ismaili police for protection. These thugs who profess to be guardians of the faith in fact showed cowardice in the Holy house of Hazar Imam

These are the same thugs who showed cowardice and no shame when they attacked Nagib physically in Ottawa in October 2010

For this reason I salute Alnaz. May he be always guided by our Holy Imam.

Leaders ARE aware

PanjeBhai Vancouverite says Bloglaw: Here you go again – MKs and Councils should do this and do that.Did Alnaz approach them at the time of previous incidences and sought Institutions help in this matter? ...Your friends and you would rather use the heritage platform to put down Imam’s appointees, create division and fuel the fire. Despite their past insults, I’m sure if they genuinely ask the Council for help, you’d be amazed how far the council would go to help a murid. So stop lecturing MHI’s leaders and tell your friends, ......P.S. I have heard that Alnaz attends different JKs, not just one.

BLOGLAW replies:
Panjebhai – Yes Leaders including especially the top two, SS and MM were fully aware – So what did they do or are doing.? Do MK's know ? Do all leaders know ? They have refused to even met Alnaz nor have they issued any directives in this matter to MK’s nor have they updated the Jamat with an announcement . Have they ? Instead they have instructed all MK’s and Leaders not to discuss this lawsuit and related issues. Jena a proxy for leaders instructs commands and wants Leaders not even to be mentioned ?

I agree to disagree that If they approach the leaders the leaders that Dr SS and MM will do anything when they are not following Imam’s Farmans about First. making Farmans available to all Ismailies and Secondly. not meeting murids concluding this case by arbitration, by discussion and by friendship. Thirdly Not following Imam's directions of 15th October 2010, to state a few.

So what if Alnaz attend different JK’s ? I suggest you as a murid and if you are really concerned should speak to those MK's and find out if they are fully aware and given them a copy of their mandate which I have shared. I will not be surprised some MK's will not have a copy or know fully ?

Leader don't share info

My reply to Editor vancouverite:
Editor as a journalist with experience of crime reporting I agree that your thinking is for legal action. If as you say you predicted any likelihood of violence then firstly you should have notified our leaders and secondly also the authorities. In our community's case top leaders were fully aware Of even earlier incidents and death threats and hate mails from the lawsuit and from other leaders. They know the root causes and those who were involved.

The concern is and should be, What did the leaders do to prevent and what are they doing now? has there been an announcement in at least the relevant JK's? I agree with you and Nizar that it is high time they act to inform the Jamat regarding the lawsuit, and especially all Mukhis and kamadia’ s. The national leaders must meet all those involved in the incidents and to make an appropriate announcements globally.

Also SS and MM and or other top leaders should meet Alnaz and Nagib to conclude the only issue remaining and so conclude the lawsuit.

This matter and incidents are in the public domain and also in the hands of the police authorities. They will be investigating and so will mukhi kamadia and leaders. If Leaders cannot prevent such incidents and do not share with and keep the jamat informed, and meet those involved or address the root causes, then I sadly more legal actions and such incidents cannot ruled out in future. Also this will impact on how we as a community are perceived going forward, and sadly this reflect on us and on leaders and on Imam.

maybe SS and MM should consider resigning now?

Leaders need to act proactively and collaboratively if they want to pre- don’t and prevent and more important to ensure decorum respect unity and harmony.

Farmans edited & NOT ALL Shared

Follower in Vancouverite : Bloglaw, your brain works in the following manner: If a man is a human being and a woman is a human being then the man must be a woman. This is how you have interpreted the article where Imam says that Ismailis have access to Farmans in Jamatkhanas. Is there a JK in the world that doesn’t have Farmans available? ……. Bloglaw, not ALL Farmans will be available because IMAM has never approved the release of those Farmans. Bloglaw, now take a hike!
BLOGLAW replies :
1 Does Imam or the Lawsuit say limited or edited or some excerpts of Firmans are available in JK’s ?
2 Are you saying after Imam delivers Farmans and we should not listen read understand and follow them until they are edited or authorised ? Read my comment about the process of annotating again.
3 In all JK's only selected Farmans and edited excerpts are available, and different in different JK's. These Firmans are also not printed of copies available to read ? So are those Firmans also not authorized and should therefore not be read in JK or followed ?
4 Does the following say only limited or selected or some of the Firmans are available in remote locations ? "..ARRANGEMENTS ARE ALSO MADE TO PROVIDE ISOLATED JAMATS, WHO EXPERIENCE DIFFICULTIES ATTENDING JAMATKHANAS, WITH ACCESS TO RELIGIOUS EDUCATION, INCLUDING FIRMANS” (DOES NOT SAY LIMITED FIRMANS OR EXCERPTS OF FIRMANS)
5 Are you saying Jamat and lso BUI (children, scholars and teachers ) should have only limited access to Farmans and so limited and selected guidance which Leaders decide to share? Remember Imam has confirmed in GJ London and again in Singapore leaders do not share.
6 Even edited Firmans read in JK are not availabe in all JK’s ?
Are you also saying ALL guidance and Firmans of MHI should NOT be shared by the leaders in all JK's in all Locations ?
Wake up to 2011 follower :) If you are a follower of all Imams Farmans and guidance ! Maybe what your are writing is not what you really mean to say?

Ismaili Institution should come out in the open with solution

YAM, MR. NEWS EDITOR (Vancouverite)! You have proposed several viable solutions for which you are commended! You had the good fortune to read all the pertaining documentations, some of which or all are published in Vancouverite. It appears none of them are classified. You also had the opportunity to get the first-hand, off the record, the information on this issue. On strength of legitimacy and authenticity, you appear to view the further possibility of escalation of this kind of violence in future. But the restraining orders to enforce the law appears to be little rigid. We all are Ismaili Muslims; therefore, the responsibility lies on every Ismaili Muslim shoulder to uphold the sanctity of Jamatkhana! To chastise legitimate Ismaili Muslims amounts to discrimination; and to disbar them to enjoy the privilege to worship in Jamatkhana would also amount to infringement on their legal rights. The Ismaili Institution should come out in the open with solutions to prevent these kinds of incidents from occurring in future. The time to maintain silence has departed! I am appalled to read about the violation of sanctity of Ismaili Muslims Jamatkhana! We have descended very low in our understanding about the sanctity of Ismaili Muslims Jamatkhana. It is very sad that we were not able to contain the unruly behaviour in the premises of Ismaili Muslims Jamatkhana. It is a sad notch in Ismaili Muslims history! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Reply

Ismailism advocates safeguarding the righteous,and the innocent

YAM, LIBRARIAN UMED! We are on a very critical entrance of injustice, discrimination, and prejudice which is being exercised by Ismaili Muslims Community! This narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and intolerance are not preached in Ismailism. The Ismailism advocates safeguarding the righteous, honourable, and innocent. We do not have to become the prosecutor, the judge and the jury to prosecute the blame worthy! We cannot take legal action and put on trial the culpable. We have to become tolerant during the time of provocation! The ill-treatment, discrimination, and victimisation are not the justifiable answers. The violent behaviour will lead to violence. Any committed assault is punishable by the criminal code. The law enforcement has a zero tolerance on any premeditated and intended misdemeanour. A place of worship deserves respect, high regard, reverence, adoration, and devotion! Its sanctity has to be preserved all the times and under all the circumstances! The Ismaili Muslims Institution cannot take the law on its hands to become the police force but it can enforce the article on misdemeanour in Ismaili Muslims Constitution. The said Institution is not the law enforcement academic to enforce the laws of the country in all Ismaili Muslims Jamatkhana. For a few who are antagonistic, unsympathetic, and intimidating has to bear in their minds, the outcome of their misdemeanour is affecting every Ismaili Muslim. Therefore, they should direct their grievances to appropriate guardian of the law enforcement! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

violence and conflict come

violence and conflict come from a clash of ignorances and misunderstandings which also results in intolerance and lack of respect for others.

The solution is for leaders and mukhi and kamadia Sahebs, to share and seek information facts and knowledge of what they know not and share with their Jamats.

@Bloglaw

Ya Ali Madad Bloglaw. Very well said. Your comments on Mukhis/Kamadias Responsibility, I would also add that including Ismaili Leaders' responsibility is to "protect" each an every Ismaili Murid of Our Beloved Hazar Imam. They should not be one-sided. Those "so-called" Ismailis who started the "provocation", should also be punished. As I have said before, these acts are not performed by "civilised" Ismailis but "gundas" (thugs). It is sad that Hazar Imam has to put up with such Murids, who have so much hatred for their own Spiritual Brothers, but He is "ever-loving and merciful". Alnaz and Nagib are not enemies of Hazar Imam, but such Ismailis who are provoking, verbally/physically attacking them are enemies of Hazar Imam. I am sure this kind of act is "not acceptable" by Hazar Imam. Thank You.

Quite right - I wonder how

Quite right - I wonder how many Mukhi and Kamadia's know and have a copy of the directives on their responsibilities. What the Leaders Dr SS and MM have done since April 2010 in informing Mukhi's and Kamadias ?, meeting them and giving directives to MK's in order that the Mukhi's and Kamadia can better carry out their responsibilities to creating more unity and harmony ?

If Murids ask and should their local MK's about the lawsuit and directives from the Leaders. Murids will be quite surprised if not shocked. Please feel free to ask them.

Remember before the lawsuit was filed the first persons the leaders should have contacted and discussed with and involved should have been their local mukhi Saheb's and leadership. This was not done by DSS or MM, let alone even speak to Alnaz before the lawsuit landed on him without even the courtesy of a notice. That is deliberately going against Imams guidance and our ethics ?

Therefore I would not hold my breath expecting Dr SS MM and (those closely involved) to help Alnaz or anyone else who do not agree with them to maintain the status quo they want and have managed to hold on to so far.

Yasmin, . It is very sad and I am very sad to say so. But that is the ground reality.

Mukhi and Kamadia Responsibilites

Regarding the incident in JK with Alnaz . What did the Leaders do or could have done t ?. Did Mukhi and Kamadia Sahebs inform and discuss with the National council of the possible impact etc since April 2010.

Mukhi Sahebans have a responsibility to preempt and in this case were all Mukhi & Kamadia Saheb’s fully informed and did they (especially where Alnaz is known and attends) receive directives from the National council (MM & SS) regarding this lawsuit and its possible impact. If so could this incident have been avoided and what was done to do so by Mukhi and Kamadia Sahebans. Knowing prior to this there were other incident out side JK (This is also their responsibility)

Mukhi and Kamadia Sahebans responsibilities include especially;

“To maintain order, decorum, dignity, solemnity and discipline in JK and at other assemblies gathering and functions they officiate
To CULTIVATE PEACE AND HARMONY amongst members of the Jamat and to bring to the immediate attention of the national council any situation incident or problem (whether within or outside the Jamat) which is LIKELY TO IMPACT or affect the peace and tranquility of the Jamat and to act in accordance with the directives of the National Council” (emphasis supplied)

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