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Copyright Lawsuit: Defendants are continuously attacked, assaulted - 2010-12-31

Date: 
Friday, 2010, December 31
Location: 

Defendants Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz Jiwa have been continuously attacked and assaulted since the beginning of the Lawsuit.

Verbal and printed attacks against the defendants in Public and in Jamatkhanas are well-known. Reports of physical attacks are now coming to light.

Again, these attacks go against all of Hazar Imam's teachings. In light of the stand of the Imam during the Discovery in October 2010, there is no valid reason for these senseless attacks to continue.

Comments on Attacks

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More comments from users:

Alnaz Jiwa found Not Guilty in the Assault Case - Judgment 2012!
On May 30th, 2012 librarian-umed says:

Alnaz has been found innocent in the assault case.

it will be interesting to read the Reasons the Judge gave.

Alnaz, please share with us what exactly happened.


Best news
On May 31st, 2012 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

This is the best news I have had.Shukhr, Shukhr.

Leaders did not intervene in this incident, to resolve this internally, beause they were pushing these individuals to ruin Alnaz and of course Nagib. This incident happened inside the Jamat Khanna. The allegations were totaly false.I look forward to read the reasons.Thank you.

The power of MM and SS group did not work in this case to ruin Alnaz who would have lost his livelyhood. What are our Leader doing this for; Alnaz gave 78 books to Ismailies of Farmans which Imam wants his murids to have and which Imam allowed them to keep on 15 Oct 201o

Mawla knows and Knows best. Shukhr. Alhamdullilah


Kara recognized that he
On May 31st, 2012 librarian-umed says:

Kara recognized that he started the fight by hitting Alnaz and Alnaz had the reflex to throw back the plate in his hand in response.

That's what happened. The dispute could have been resolved out of court and the whole lawsuit was useless.

The judge took it as legitimate defense I think. That explains the Judgement. We'll know when we read the reasons in the judgement.


Alnaz Jiwa Not Guilty !!
On May 31st, 2012 Alnaz (not verified) says:

My criminal trial had taken place over four days in March of this year and the Judgement was today.

Six witnesses testified against me. Although two witnesses (in addition to me) were to testify on my behalf, after hearing the contradictory evidence against me, I alone testified in my defense.

The trial judge held today, after reading his judgment for about 35 to 40 minutes, that I was not guilty. He essentially rejected all of the witnesses' evidence respecting the incident that happened in Unionville JK, going over in details the evidence given by the witnesses.

The trial judge slammed Mehboob Kamadia's evidence the most, essentially pointing to him as the cause of the trouble at JK that night, saying that he exaggerated his evidence, gave false statement to police that night, that he speculated in one specified point without any evidence, and held that he was motivated by animus he has held against me for many years. The judge also rejected MK’s evidence that I threatened him that night.

With respect to Kara, the victim who was injured that night, the trial judge held that he was aggressive against me inside the JK as well as outside the JK and that he assaulted me by punching me (“series” of punches) and had to be pacified and calmed by others. The trial judge said that his hitting me unjustified and was unprovoked. The trial judge portrayed Kara also in an unflattering light.

Two witnesses had testified that they saw me grabbing Kara, and Kara pushed me away and in response I assaulted Kara. Both these witnesses’ testimony was rejected in full by the Judge and gave reasons why he did that.

Kara’s wife’s evidence was also rejected by the trial judge on grounds that she did not give a statement to the police the night of the incident and instead gave it after 15 months (during trial) and she admitted (on cross-examination) that in the 15 months she discussed “in details” the case with her husband. The judge held that he could not rely on her evidence.

The judge held that my response that night was proper and not criminal when I responded to the unprovoked assault on me by Kara, who wanted to break my teeth, to protect myself.

I have ordered transcript of the reasons, which I hope, this site will post after I get it.

All I can say is a very heartfelt to all of my supporters and Ameen to all of the prayers offered for me.

* Canada

Crabs in a Bucket -
On May 31st, 2012 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Crabs in a Bucket - Reminded me of our Leadership subculture ? This expression is used to describe a person (or subculture) that does everything in it's power to destroy the ambitions of those among them who wish to improve themselves.

It comes from the story of catching crabs in a bucket. When you catch a crab and place him in a bucket, the first thing he'll try to do is escape. Now, if you put two crabs in a bucket (hence the plural form of 'Crabs in a Bucket') and place them in there together, as soon as one tries to climb up out of the bucket the other will grab the escaping crab by the legs and try to escape itself, to which the process gets repeated to the point where NO crabs end up getting out.

Are our good leaders & down the line too busy pulling each other and the Jamat down ! That they do not realise that SS and Co are out of the bucket getting what they like materially and laughing at them ! ?


6 witnesses against you ?
On May 31st, 2012 asif (not verified) says:

6 witnesses against you ? And the Judge did not even have to listen to your witnesses to decide ?

looks like a conspiracy against Alnaz and others may be involved behind the scene ?

How can some Ismailis stoop so low ?


2 witnesses
On May 31st, 2012 am (not verified) says:

Can you share the names of the witnesses so the Jamat knows and to see who they are connected with and why would they do so ?


I was called to Toronto as a withness in the kuku paka case
On May 31st, 2012 Nagib Tajdin (not verified) says:

I went to Toronto as a witness to confirm that Mehboob Kamadia attacked me on Spark Street in Ottawa in the morning of 12 October 2010 after the hearing with Judge Boivin. And to confirm that he had a history of hate and hate provocation since a long time against both Alnaz and myself. [This is apparent in his proxy web site lawsuit 2010)

M. Kamadia whom I know since birth, and who is linked to an array of mass defamatory emails against me, was accompanied by 3 others of his gang in Ottawa, all coming from Toronto. If I would have reacted all of them would also have become witnesses against me. I did not give them this opportunity.

When we were kids in Congo, we were very good friends, I was helping with his homework and in turn he was not bullying me (like he was to other kids). When I published the first Farman Book (red cover) we parted as he was deeply hurt that I did not involve him in the project.

Sadely the same M. Kamadia organized the assault on Alnaz in the Jamatkhana and became the key witness that day. All the witnesses of the Kamadia gang contradicted themselves.

Mehboob Kamadia lied and denied under oath that he assaulted me in Ottawa but admitted taking pictures of me there and by that time his credibility was already zero. The Judge said there was no necessity to hear more witnesses.

Mehboob who had excited Kara against Alnaz and who was the real culprit, lost at the end his credibility and got burned in the fire that he had lit himself.

There is a French expression that says "Tel est prit qui croyait prendre" and "Rira bien qui rira le dernier". I am not sure how to translate this.


I think translation is
On May 31st, 2012 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I think translation is "Don't assume or believe everything you hear " and "He laughs best, who laughs last"

If M Kamadia is angry with you, why does he and his gang attack and hurt Alnaz inside a Jamat Khanna He sounds as vindictive and arrogant as SS who also threatened you and is carrying that threat forward ? There must be others who are at best "egging" them on because, this gang or he also not make threats against Chatur too ?

I wonder if the Leaders will now do anything ? Alnaz and you have valid legal and moral claim against LIF and or It's Chairman, CEO, S Sachedina and M Manji for sending out the announcements and feeding the media etc.

I hope LIF and the Chair and CEO of LIF are reading these comments.


The translation is that he
On May 31st, 2012 librarian-umed says:

The translation is that he who tried to catch was himself caught.


Is not M Kamadia the same
On May 31st, 2012 integrity (not verified) says:

Is not M Kamadia the same who has made threats against Nagib Tajdin ? Why is he doing this ? He is certainly not following Imams Farmans ?

If the LIF announcement was not sent this incident would not have happened and the local leaders would have intervened ?

So is not LIF to blame ? or is it only the LIF Chairman and S Sachedina who sent it without a propoer LIF meeting, and Board minutes. ? If so this was unauthoried. This should be investigated Institutionally or by ICAB and NCAB.


@Alnaz Jiwa Not Guilty
On May 31st, 2012 Imani (not verified) says:

I am glad this has been clarified by you. There is a sick email circulating around in the UK regarding this incident and I hope the above judgement given by the judge will shut the mouths of those who are trying to gain unecessary attention.

* United Kingdom

"Kuku Paka" Case
On May 31st, 2012 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Will any damages, expenses, etc. be recovered from Mehboob Kamadia, since he "lost" the case? Thank You.

* Canada

Add to my comment
On May 31st, 2012 Yasmin (not verified) says:

I wish to add to my comment. Will the Mukhi/Kamadia of Unionville Jamatkhana take any actions against Mehboob Kamadia for causing "disturbance" in a place of worship, any action against Peel Police for "wrongful conviction", will there be any "restraining" order for Mehboob Kamadia? Thank You.

* Canada

Comments on Attacks

Comments to this page include relevant extracts from: http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/29740#comments

I just read a story in
On December 31st, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I just read a story in vancouverite that Alnaz was arrested in JK ? can you find out and it has Anything to do with this lawsuit?

* United Kingdom

I guess we'll find out once
On December 31st, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

I guess we'll find out once it is daytime in Toronto. Did this happen yesterday night?

I would not be surprised that it is the same people who provoked, pushed and kicked me in Ottawa on 12 October 2010 [they were also from Toronto]. God, the kind of insults they threw at me for several minutes were made to make one's blood boil. [they were 4 of them, they have been identified to the police]

I'll do a follow up with the police to see if they have linked the death threats [65.92.232.218] to the same people that attacked me in Ottawa and possibly the same who provoked Alnaz if this story is true.

The fact that Vancouverite is publicizing the story so fast, by itself, shows the same people are involved. One of the photo that group took of me in Ottawa was put the same day on Vancouverite and on Mehboob Kamadia's web site so the link is strong.

Why has Vancouverite not given the name of the person who provoked Alnaz? We all know the answer.

Nagib

@Nagib
On December 31st, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Nagib. Sorry for the incident that took place in Ottawa on Oct. 12, 2010. It's sad and a "shame" on the actions of the 4 "so-called" Ismailis. This is "unislamic", and "uncivilised". Is this what they do when they go to Jamatkhana, with that type of mentality? Civilised people know that this type of action is performed by "gundas" (thugs). Thank You.

* Canada

We will know soon as a
On December 31st, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

We will know soon as a jamat, from Alnaz, Police and Leaders. Vancouverite as usual is giving one side of the story. I hope when the police complete their investigations they will find and charge those who have made death threats and threatened and kicked you too.

I also hope our leaders will investigate to find out who , why and what instigated and motivated this behaviour and action against both you, and this latest incident. I also hope they will take effective and appropriate action internally to stop it happening again.

* United Kingdom

Editor of vancouverite
On December 31st, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Editor of vancouverite before knowing all the facts is commenting on a criminal matter and says " please refrain from commenting on a criminal matter. At the same time I’d request Ismaili authorities in Canada to seek a restraining order preventing the suspect from being in the vicinity of any Ismaili mosque until outstanding issues and this criminal matter are resolved. As well it is the duty of Ismaili leaders to ensure the safety of worshippers and I ask the leadership to act to protect Ismailis from further harm.

Not only is Editor being judgemental and irresponsible as a journalist, but now wants leaders MM and SS in the name of MHI to file another civil lawsuit against Alnaz without even following also the internal processes. My My Mr Editor what next - total autocracy and do as I say not as I do !

* United Kingdom

lawsuits against?
On December 31st, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

If leaders who are expressing their views through this Editor will also be trying to file a lawsuit to get a restraining orders, then what next, against those who have issued death threats, and others who do not get along and fight in JK youth? or or who have criminal cases or civil matrimonial cases or restraining orders, where does it stop then.

If it was anyone else but Alnaz would the police have been called and involved ? Have police ever been called? Have there been any physical fights before in or around JK ? These and Many questions will need to be considered by Leaders and this should be resolved internally by arbitration by discussion and by friendship. in any event not before the outcome of the police investigations and processes.

* United Kingdom

From other sources, we have
On December 31st, 2010 librarian-umed says:

From other sources, we have heard that Mehboob Kamadia and his acquaintance insulted and provoked Alnaz who was leaving JK with a plate of Nandi in both hands. These sources are saying Alnaz was hit by Kara in the shoulder and by reaction threw the plate from his hand to this Kara and of course Mehboob Kamadia and his friends became "witness" against Alnaz.

I am not sure Alnaz will comment on this as this is a police matter but we are trying to get hold of the report Nagib gave to the police about how he was provoked and attacked by people from the same gang in Ottawa where he was also insulted, unsuccessfully provoked and attacked. No doubt, they succeeded having Alnaz react to their attack.

But we should all question ourselves who the real criminals are in this matter and what they were trying to achieve?

To Librarian-umed re: Alnaz (Dec. 31)
On January 1st, 2011 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Could you please also find out if Alnaz was hurt? Is his shoulder all right? Thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Injury
On January 1st, 2011 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Thanks for all well wishes and prayers. Shukr I was not injured in the attack. Obviously as it is now a police matter I will avoid making further comments on this incident.

* Canada

"Physical Assaults in Jamatkhana"
On December 31st, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. It is so sad to read that some ismailis have assaulted Nagib and Alnaz in Jamatkhanas. Our Beloved Hazar Imam has given us so much love, that some of these ismailis have taken it for granted. These ismailis have come to western countries with their mentalities, that they can do whatever they feel like. I remember Hazar Imam saying that "take the best from the west".

The incidents that took place with Nagib and Alnaz are "unislamic, sad and uncivilised". The Mukhis/Kamadias of these Jamatkhanas where these incidents took place and Ismaili leaders, should take immediate action against these "ismaili criminals". They should be issued with "restraining orders", and I think that the Police should also be informed, because both Nagib and Alnaz were "physically assaulted", and be charged. These ismaili criminals should not get away with these crimes that they have committed. Thank You.

* Canada

Alnaz was attacked when he
On January 1st, 2011 Nagib (not verified) says:

Alnaz was attacked when he was leaving Unionville Jamatkhana in Toronto with a Nandi in his hand this week.

The same gang attacked me in Ottawa, Sparks Street where there are CCTV surveillance cameras because of the Court. That was 12 October 2010. Police report was filed.

There is also the component of previous threats and hate emails on me and Alnaz. IP number of originating threats have been traced and remitted to the authorities. I believe by now the names of the people logged on that IP when these messages were posted, have been found. I have to be in Canada for the matter to proceed further but for now I am in Nairobi. Obviously authorities know where to look in case something happens to me or to Alnaz.

When the inquiry ends, all these events will be joined and criminals will be punished according to Canadian laws.

Nagib

Has your local Mukhi or
On January 2nd, 2011 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Has your local Mukhi or Kamadia Sahebs or the Leaders spoken or discussed with Alnaz or Nagib regarding the lawsuit, any directives they have from the top leaders and about what the Jamat are feeling.

Have Mukhi Sahebans reassured the Jamat that it is the Imam's and Leaders wish that these murids are murids and will remain murids and should be treated equally as all other murids. ? If not they would have been excommunicated.

Has Mukhi and Kamadia Sahebans informed the Jamat ?

* United Kingdom

@Nagib re: above post of Jan. 1st
On January 2nd, 2011 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for this update, Nagib. Please hang in there!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Jamatkhanas
On January 1st, 2011 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Jamatkhanas have become for "social gatherings". Our Beloved Sultan Muhammadshah had said that when one goes to Jamatkhana, he/she should talk about "din" and not "duniya", but things are getting out of control especially in some Canadian Jamatkhanas. I understand that Salim Damji's "Colgate Shares" deals were taking place in Jamatkhanas, some Mukhis/Kamadias and some Ismaili leaders were encouraging Jamat to buy these deals.

I have been to some of Jamatkhanas in Toronto, but the worst one is "Don Mills" Jamatkhana. When you enter, you see seniors arguing for seats(chairs), ginans are recited, there is so much noise, you cannot hear ginans. Prayers are over there is lot of noise. Some ladies sit in a circle on the ladies side and are busy talking and children running around. It is so difficult to walk from one end to another. People standing on the way "talking", it is very frustrating. One thinks when you go to Jamatkhana, you feel at peace but sometimes you come home drained out and tired.

Now, there are provocations and fights in Jamatkhanas. Do these Ismailis go to pray in Jamatkhanas or create commotion, hatred and anger for their spiritual brothers and sisters? It is a shame for those whoever created "these divisions" in Ismaili community.

Nagib and Alnaz "are not enemies" of Our Beloved Hazar Imam but those Ismailis who are provoking and verbally/physically attacking them, are enemies of Hazar Imam.

Jamatkhanas are meant to be for "worshiping", and not for all these things I have mentioned. I have also been told that, nandi, shoes, jackets, etc. get stolen. It is very sad that such things are happening in a western country. I am sorry to say but there is "no discipline" in some of our Jamatkhanas.

Are these the" visions/dreams" of Our Beloved Hazar Imam for His Spiritual Children who have moved to western countries? Thank You.

* Canada

You are so right Yasmin, and
On January 2nd, 2011 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

You are so right Yasmin, and it is sad that within the JK environment, Din is driven and motivated by Dunya and not the other way around. There is no harm in socialising and having all kinds of activities and programs. However they should all be driven in in letter and spirit in accordance with Imam's Farmans, guidance and directives.

In this case too I feel that the Leaders and Mukhi Kamadia Sahebs need to address this widening gap in our Khannes and also in Ismaili Centres which address the multifunctional and muti cultural societal needs of the Jamats of today and tomorrow.

* United Kingdom

Keep your cool
On January 1st, 2011 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Brother Alnaz, all I can say to you is that no matter how these people try to provoke you, keep your cool, ignore them and walk away. Do not lower yourself to their level. Obviously as I have mentioned before, they have judged you and passed an order of execution which is completely against everything that Hazar Imam stands for so just turn your back, walk away and pray for Hazar Imam to forgive them. I know this is very difficult but when faced with such situations, remember your mulaqat of Oct 15 - how gently and lovingly Imam spoke to you, how He made it clear to you that He wasn't upset with you and remember also that you are amongst the luckiest people in the world, having being granted a whole 30 minutes with the Imam. Nothing else therefore should matter to you and by reacting to provocation you are letting Hazar Imam down.
Also remember Mawlana Sultan Mohamed Shah's firman:
A fellow approached the Imam and asked for punishment for his sins. But he reminded the Imam that he was a friend of the Imam's. The Imam gave him a choice of what kind of punishment he wanted. He chose to be burnt alive in front of the whole uma. This was arranged. People gathered and jeered at him and also spoke against the Imam - how could the Imam burn His own friend?! But all tongues were silenced when the fire refused to harm the friend of the Imam.

So remember this always, Brother Alnaz, and keep your cool. Best wishes to you and your family.

Sister Zeenatara.

@Zeenataara Allahrakhya re: above post (Jan. 1)
On January 2nd, 2011 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for sharing that beautiful story of the friend of the Imam, Zeenatara.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Shocking to hear of such heathenish behaviour
On January 1st, 2011 Suleman (not verified) says:

Shocking to hear of such heathenish behaviour, first of all from people who are followers of our beloved Imam, secondly from people who live in one of the most progressive countries in the world. It feels we are back in the dark ages, in those eras when wrongdoers or alleged wrongdoers were stoned to death. What a shame! What a shame for us as Ismailis, what a shame for our Imam whose teachings have apparently fallen on deaf ears, what a shame for the mukhi/kamadia sahebs and the councils and the boards who could not contain this matter and had to have the police involved! Shame, shame, shame!
To Alnaz and Nagib, hang in there and kudos to you for being so brave and keeping your sights on Mowla only.

Mukhi and Kamadia Responsibilites
On January 2nd, 2011 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Regarding the incident in JK with Alnaz . What did the Leaders do or could have done t ?. Did Mukhi and Kamadia Sahebs inform and discuss with the National council of the possible impact etc since April 2010.

Mukhi Sahebans have a responsibility to preempt and in this case were all Mukhi & Kamadia Saheb’s fully informed and did they (especially where Alnaz is known and attends) receive directives from the National council (MM & SS) regarding this lawsuit and its possible impact. If so could this incident have been avoided and what was done to do so by Mukhi and Kamadia Sahebans. Knowing prior to this there were other incident out side JK (This is also their responsibility)

Mukhi and Kamadia Sahebans responsibilities include especially;

“To maintain order, decorum, dignity, solemnity and discipline in JK and at other assemblies gathering and functions they officiate
To CULTIVATE PEACE AND HARMONY amongst members of the Jamat and to bring to the immediate attention of the national council any situation incident or problem (whether within or outside the Jamat) which is LIKELY TO IMPACT or affect the peace and tranquility of the Jamat and to act in accordance with the directives of the National Council” (emphasis supplied)

* United Kingdom

Ismailism advocates safeguarding the righteous,and the innocent
On January 2nd, 2011 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, LIBRARIAN UMED! We are on a very critical entrance of injustice, discrimination, and prejudice which is being exercised by Ismaili Muslims Community! This narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and intolerance are not preached in Ismailism. The Ismailism advocates safeguarding the righteous, honourable, and innocent. We do not have to become the prosecutor, the judge and the jury to prosecute the blame worthy! We cannot take legal action and put on trial the culpable. We have to become tolerant during the time of provocation! The ill-treatment, discrimination, and victimisation are not the justifiable answers. The violent behaviour will lead to violence. Any committed assault is punishable by the criminal code. The law enforcement has a zero tolerance on any premeditated and intended misdemeanour. A place of worship deserves respect, high regard, reverence, adoration, and devotion! Its sanctity has to be preserved all the times and under all the circumstances! The Ismaili Muslims Institution cannot take the law on its hands to become the police force but it can enforce the article on misdemeanour in Ismaili Muslims Constitution. The said Institution is not the law enforcement academic to enforce the laws of the country in all Ismaili Muslims Jamatkhana. For a few who are antagonistic, unsympathetic, and intimidating has to bear in their minds, the outcome of their misdemeanour is affecting every Ismaili Muslim. Therefore, they should direct their grievances to appropriate guardian of the law enforcement! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

Ismaili Institution should come out in the open with solution
On January 2nd, 2011 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. NEWS EDITOR (Vancouverite)! You have proposed several viable solutions for which you are commended! You had the good fortune to read all the pertaining documentations, some of which or all are published in Vancouverite. It appears none of them are classified. You also had the opportunity to get the first-hand, off the record, the information on this issue. On strength of legitimacy and authenticity, you appear to view the further possibility of escalation of this kind of violence in future. But the restraining orders to enforce the law appears to be little rigid. We all are Ismaili Muslims; therefore, the responsibility lies on every Ismaili Muslim shoulder to uphold the sanctity of Jamatkhana! To chastise legitimate Ismaili Muslims amounts to discrimination; and to disbar them to enjoy the privilege to worship in Jamatkhana would also amount to infringement on their legal rights. The Ismaili Institution should come out in the open with solutions to prevent these kinds of incidents from occurring in future. The time to maintain silence has departed! I am appalled to read about the violation of sanctity of Ismaili Muslims Jamatkhana! We have descended very low in our understanding about the sanctity of Ismaili Muslims Jamatkhana. It is very sad that we were not able to contain the unruly behaviour in the premises of Ismaili Muslims Jamatkhana. It is a sad notch in Ismaili Muslims history! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Well said, Yasmin!
On January 4th, 2011 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Dear Sister Yasmin,
Your message is so true, so well expressed and your emotions are so touching. If only they would listen. But it seems they have deliberately put blinkers on their eyes and will not rest until they achieve their goal of annihilating Nagib and Alnaz. However we should have no doubt that Mowla will protect them and also soon put an end to this pagan and heathenish behavior, inshallah!

Re: Alnaz Jiwa
On January 4th, 2011 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

I still feel that Alnaz Jiwa's behaviour is not acceptable.
Violence is not accepted. With humility, lots can be accomplished.

* Canada

I guess when you are
On January 4th, 2011 Guessing (not verified) says:

I guess when you are surrounded by a gang that you know is out to either beat you to death or damage you and one of them start beating you, it is very difficult to wait for the time all of them will join.

But you are right our Prophet Jesus said if they slap you on one cheek you should tell them to slap the other cheek so maybe Alnaz could have done this. [If he was a Christian]

Alnaz Jiwa
On January 4th, 2011 Jenny (not verified) says:

It seems now there is a growing concern that Alnaz should not have defended himself. Perhaps those who say that he shouldn't have, should try and put themselves in Alnaz's shoes.

From what I hear, Alnaz is a very quiet peaceful person. He goes to many J.K's and it was only at this J.K where M.Kamadia and his gang were verbally bullying him whilst he was standing in the Dua Karavi line, that this altercation took place. Apparently they were taunting Alnaz to leave the J.K,, pushing him and telling him they will "break his batrisi". Alnaz said, if you want to break my batrisi, lets go outside. They didn't go outside. Then again, after nandi was over, Alnaz was provoked again by the chamcho of the gang, punched at least 3 times on the shoulder, and it was then that Alnaz took the swing and left a mark on chamcho showing that he was not going to be intimidated by anyone anymore. The leader of the gang (M.Kamadia)who was standing right behind Alnaz then ran and called the police but he was not man-enough to face Alnaz one-on-one ! This is what I was told by those who were present when this incident took place.

Sad as it may be, this incident is an eye-opener for the leadership to wake up and be true to the oath that they have taken. Perhaps now local leadership will realize that they too have an obligation to fulfill their responsibilities as per the Constitution and not follow the higher leaders blindly.

"Hurting Our Beloved Hazar Imam"
On January 3rd, 2011 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Recent "sad" incidents took place because of this lawsuit. I have said this before, "THIS LAWSUIT IS BETWEEN OUR BELOVED HAZAR IMAM, NAGIB AND ALNAZ". It is about "publishing of Farmans. Nagib and Alnaz love their Imam.

On Oct. 15, 2010, Hazar Imam talked to these 2 Murids and discussed what to do next. Now, why should some members of the Jamat interfere with Hazar Imam's decisions? Did Hazar Imam want to punish these Murids? No. Did Hazar Imam attack them verbally? No. Did Hazar Imam want to ex-communicate them from the jamat? No. So, why should some of the jamat from other sites and elsewhere want actions taken against these 2 Murids? Are they better then Our Beloved Hazar Imam? These Ismailis have created "divisions" in our Jamat.

It's none of "our business" to be judges as to what should be done to these Murids. We are in one of the "progressive" countries in the world, and we should change our mentalities and not go back to those "dark ages". Leave these 2 Murids alone, and move on, Mowla is dealing with this issue.

Nagib and Alnaz are no making Hazar Imam unhappy, but it's these group of ismailis who are creating tension in the community, are making Hazar Imam unhappy.

At this time, we all should be united, and pray for these 2 Murids. Every religion teaches "love" for each other. Our Beloved Prophet Jesus Christ(peace be upon him) said: "Love thy neighbours, treat others the way you want to be treated".

It is said that, "when somebody falls down, pick them up, even if it is your enemy". Thank You.

* Canada

@Yasmin
On January 4th, 2011 librarian-umed says:

You write: It is about "publishing of Farmans. Nagib and Alnaz love their Imam

It looks like the judge at the 7/8 December Hearing in Toronto understood exactly the case like this as he said to Nagib about the Farmans, according to observers, that "you only wanted to spread the "Good Word" in your community."

In Christianity [The judge said he was Christian and could understand this], this expression is used about spreading the Word of God, the Gospels and the Bible.

"Kalam-E-Imam-E-Zaman" Golden Edition
On January 4th, 2011 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Umed. You are absolutely right. I have read Farmans from Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman, Golden Ediition, 1957-2009, and also heard extracts of Farmans made by Hazar Imam on the MP3. It's a "brilliant" job Nagib has done, especially MP3, a "kindergarten child" to "Jenabai, Kulsumbai and others" can hear Our Beloved Hazar Imam's voice, when he says in one of His Farmans, "When you smile, it makes me happy. Because in Islam a smile is a Blessing from Allah. Therefore, I wish that you smile in your life, that you find happiness", Singapore 2008. I really enjoyed listening and reading these Farmans, and I was "smiling". Thank you Nagib.

* Canada

You mantioned it right. Many
On January 3rd, 2011 Rowonsadbarg (not verified) says:

You mentioned it right. Many of you live in "progressive" countries, but many luck the ethics and jump ahead the Judge to sentence. I think if you change the condition of the people a little bit, you will find no difference between them and theTaliban

* Tajikistan

Alnaz' action well-justified by Ismaili history
On January 3rd, 2011 Observer (not verified) says:

We have all read with dismay what has recently occurred at Unionville JK (Toronto) and would agree that restraint would have been the better way. However I would also like to remind all Ismailis that history shows that our Holy Prophets, Pirs, Dais and even Holy Imams have not shied away from action against intimidation when action was needed to boost the morale of the faithful.

Our Ismaili history is replete with such examples, whether it was Hazrat Daoud vs Goliath, Nabi Muhammad at Battle of Badr, Imam Husayn at Kerbala, Rashid-ud-din Sinan or Hassan bin Sabah or Pir Shams vs. Bahauddin Zakariyah etc etc.

Our brother Alnaz has always showed his Iman in action and not just words. During the time that this case has been launched, he has been threatened many times, taunted also and has shown restraint. During this incident at JK he was verbally and physically assaulted, etc. before he finally defended himself

I believe this time he showed this gang of goons and bullies that he also has the blood of his ancestor Fidais. Alnaz all alone was able to stand against these thugs. With one blow he made them run to the non-Ismaili police for protection. These thugs who profess to be guardians of the faith in fact showed cowardice in the Holy house of Hazar Imam

These are the same thugs who showed cowardice and no shame when they attacked Nagib physically in Ottawa in October 2010

For this reason I salute Alnaz. May he be always guided by our Holy Imam.

Patience and Tolerance
On January 5th, 2011 Iman (not verified) says:

I have always supported Mr Tajdin and Mr Jiwa for their strong beliefs about publishing the Farmans. However I think on this instance Mr Jiwa should have ignored the people who tried to provoke him. Remember the hardship the Imams and Dais had to undergo for our faith. The people who are trying to judge them should also bear in mind that they shouldn't be judging these two murids. The Imam is there to judge all of us.

As per the Pirs Ginan:
Eji Kaam Krodh jena ghat mahein Jaher Jagya
Tene Jitya Jitya Daav Sarve Haarya.

SS andd MM should now be serious to end this matter as it is getting out of control and the leadership will be equally responsible for not being able to resolve this matter amicably.

* United Kingdom

There is no chance that Dr
On January 6th, 2011 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

There is no chance that Dr SS and MM will resolve this matter amicably, proactively or collaboratively. Let us hope other leaders will intervene and let us pray MHI personally intervenes.

If Alnaz was physically attacked, pushed around, or man handled, he should have reported this to the Volunteers and leaders, including the authorities in view of the earlier incident with Nagib by the same group/individuals and the death threats.

* United Kingdom

Report to authorities?
On January 6th, 2011 Sully (not verified) says:

Are you suggesting that he wait till the gang removes his batrisi (32 teeth), then report them? I doubt that is a wise advise.

Life long pains with 32 (even 6 or 8) removed, or a broken jaw or hit back and fight off as he did. Yes he is now in trouble with the law (I note that the one who attacked NT in Ottawa has given evidence to the police against AJ).

I think that Heritage should poll:

What would one do between:

Option No 1: trouble with the law, get arrested for a few hours, even IF convicted (no jail time), even if he loses his license as opposed to life long pain (maybe with jaw injured he could not practice in any event); or

No 2: suffer a broken jaw, maybe 6/8 teeth gone, and life long pain and suffering.

Would you accept option no. 2?

* Canada

Self defence
On January 6th, 2011 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Option 1 of course if in self defence and especially as the same individuals group were involved in attacking and threatening earlier.

* United Kingdom

@Imran
On January 5th, 2011 Nick (not verified) says:

I agree with you , However I think Mr Jiwa must ignore people who tries to provoke him in different Jamat Khanas in GTA, I also strongly beleive its the duty of our Jamati Leadership and the Mukhi/Kamadia Sahebs to see that such thing should not take place in Jamat Khanas as every Ismaili has a right to attend the Jamat Khanas and perform in all the Jamati ceremony and rituals like saying Dua with the Jamat, reciting Tasbih and bying Nandis etc. untill the Murid is expelled for some reason from the religion by Hazar Imam. I really feel sorry for Mr.Jiwa and his loving family as certain members of our Jamat and the leaders in our communtiy has made him like an evil member of our Ismaili Jamat, I pray that when so many projects of Hazar Imam is taking place in Canada and around the Globe we all Ismailis acts as brothers and sisters among each other in Jamat Khanas and out side with love, respect, tolerance and Unity with each other to please our beloved Hazar Imam. Ameen,

Alnaz Jiwa
On January 5th, 2011 Concerned momin (not verified) says:

Ah!! my guess was right about the incident with A. Jiwa. When I read this, I said to myself it must be M. Kamadia.

I do not understand what's his problem???? He should practice what he preaches.

* Canada

Need Calm
On January 5th, 2011 Sadrudin (not verified) says:

YAM.

Loosing tamper or getting angry and doing stuffs could weaken defendants' position.

Longer the court review means, court is having problem with the plaintiff request for summary judgment request, which means, the case is going to go for trial, that means more people are going to voice their opinions and going to go against defendants.

* United States

Believe me, people opinion
On January 5th, 2011 librarian-umed says:

Believe me, peoples' opinion does not weight in the balance when Imam Himself has spoken. What will happen is what Imam wants, regardless of what is decided in Court.

When Imam meets again the defendants, it will put all the dissenting voices to rest.

@ librarian-umed
On January 6th, 2011 Nick ( Canada ) (not verified) says:

I agree with you when you say "peoples' opinion does not weight in the balance when Imam Himself has spoken. What will happen is what Imam wants, regardless of what is decided in Court" Yes! its true that the defedants has lost his cool, but then just think after all he is a humanbeing like all of us and not a saint or a sadhu, How long a person can hold his cool when he is not left alone in his own place of worship where he goes to practice his faith? I am very sad about the incident and the person who provoked the defendant to loose his cool in our holy place where every Ismaili goes to practice their faith everyday and our beloved Hazar Imam knows that very well what is going own with his Jamat and the people who are doing this act of evilness in the holy Jamat Khanas, May Mowla guide us and bless us all to live in peace and harmony among each other as a true Momeen and brothers and sisters, Ameen.

@Bloglaw
On January 8th, 2011 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Bloglaw. You are absolutely right. Bloglaw I had the same question to ask "why was this matter not resolved internally by various Boards, before it went to Courts"? Thank You.

* Canada

The Answer to your Question!
On January 8th, 2011 Nagib (not verified) says:

For me the answer to your question is obvious: The reason for the lawsuit is not copyright. Actually Alnaz or myself have never said in any Court document that we do not agree that Imam has copyright.

In fact I pleaded in December that the Imam's copyright on Farmans is even stronger in our faith than what the Canadian law says. By virtue of being the Bearer of the Noor, the Imam of The Time has copyright not only on His Farmans but on all Farmans made by previous Imam as the Farmans of previous Imams are His owns. But He has the right to allow anyone He chooses, to publish His Farmans whichever Century He made them. And He has the right to say that all Ismailis can and should distribute His Farmans to all Ismailis.

So what is the reason of this lawsuit? For one, we know that there were threats preceding the Lawsuit, these threats were that I will be discredited in the Jamat Worldwide. [Nothing to do with publishing Farmans, the book was just an excuse] Why is it so crucial for these people to discredit me. Is it because there is something I know that they do not want me to say? And when I say it they want everyone to disbelieve me?

How would this be done beside announcements in JK? In December, Gray was asked by the Judge what really he was trying to achieve and he said he is seeking to get a condemnation of infringement against me from the Court, something he said the Imam can not achieve by making a Farman. And when asked by the Judge how much money the plaintiff wanted from me, he gave a detailed account of about $30,000.

This is the same Gray who told me and Alnaz on October 15th 2010 that the Imam had specifically instructed that there should not be any cost asked from us. By saying that the Imam wanted $30,000 from us, all true Ismailis will agree that Gray has insulted the Imam. They would also agree that if Gray is disobeying instructions directly given to him by the Imam, he certainly can not be seen as representing the views of the Imam. And this is not only for the money. The same goes for the concept of "infringement" and many other demands put forth by this lawyer. Demands completely in line with SS demands, and completely out of line with Imam's instructions.

MM has tried to force the Imam to ask me to close this web site and the Imam has refused saying He was not familiar with any issue with this web site. Again the same question: Why this fear of this web site? How much is MM involved? Why did he bring this subject at the Discovery when the case was for the Book, not for the web-site. What was MM doing in the meeting room? Gray said he chose to bring MM. [Not the Imam]. MM is not officially party to the lawsuit, so?

Well regardless of what happens in the lawsuit, there is something bigger going on. In due time, I will put it here. And this is what our Imam has protected when he protected this web site against the demands of MM on October 15th.

Remember Wikileaks. Nobody knew. Now Everybody knows. The Power of Information!

Nagib

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